Regional-specific rules, etc., and do the referees read the rules?

[Godzilla!]

Originally Posted by AmyPrib

Ultimately, a summarized penalty list would be ideal, imo.

Amy,


Attached is a Summarized/Condensed version of the penaltys list handed out at some of the Regionals. Hope it helps - Ensure accuracy before using.

[Wetzel]

We had a cheat sheet at Annapolis. It made for quick and easy refrence of the rules. I thought that all the refs had this, but when I talked with some who had refed further west, I found that they did not. So for all you refs going to Atlanta, here's something to stick in your pocket.


Wetzel

[AmyPrib]

The above to files are great references.
I would like to see FIRST incorporate this concept into their rule book in the future - I think it would prove to be a huge benefit to EVERYone.....

[Jack Jones]

Originally Posted by AmyPrib

The above to files are great references.
I would like to see FIRST incorporate this concept into their rule book in the future - I think it would prove to be a huge benefit to EVERYone.....

What we have he'ah is a fail'ya to communicate!

[Wetzel]

Originally Posted by Jack Jones

What we have he'ah is a fail'ya to communicate!

I'll run off 50 copies of the cheat sheet at work and bring them myself.

Wetzel

[Mark Pettit]

Two years in a row we have had problems during inspection that should have been non-issues but turned into stress for our team. I can't say for sure that it was due to a bias against our team, but the circumstances are a bit fishy.
Last year in LA, our inspector kept telling us that we did such and such "wrong" and how we should have done it the way he would have instead. This was not any specific rule infraction, mind you, it was simply a guy from another team that thought he was the absolute best robot designer/builder ever and that any idea that might have developed outside of his own brain was inferior. The guy could not keep his personal viewpoints to himself and he should, therefore, not have been an inspector.
This year in 'Vegas, we had a size issue that we corrected for re-inspection. Upon returning to the "box" and putting our robot inside, our inspector was about to check us off when another inspector started making a stink. Even though our robot was clearly (visibly) inside of the box, this guy was able to convince all of the inspectors present at the time that it wasn't. They even made us spin the robot around 180 degrees inside the box to see if it would(n't) fit then, it still did (last I checked, if it fits one way it would also fit the other but these guys were determined). Eventually, after several minutes of arguing, I asked to have a head inspector or supervisor make the final call. When the head inspector came over and ran the metal bar up and down the open sides of the box, he declared us "in compliance". The guy who was making a "stink" was not even our inspector.
Our team tries to remain gracious and professional, even under these circumstances. We read and understand the rules and we strive to put a legally competitive robot out on the field. However, occurrences such as these seem plentiful for us and we always tend to walk away from these with very bad tastes in our mouths.
After 5 years involvement with my team, I could not possibly remain completely impartial as a ref or judge/inspector, even in a competition where my team doesn't compete (we still have rivals). I hope that those who feel the same way will refrain from volunteering for these types of positions or at least do not become involved in a situation where your bias may play a role in your decision.

[AmyPrib]

Originally Posted by Steve W

I have checked the official rules and find no mention of the tetra being an extension of the robot. The only place it is mentioned is in the Q&A which is wrong about 10% of the time and changes from day to day. No team is expected to read all of the Q&As and decifer what they mean.

Even the rules go against each other. Take for example G15 where it states that a robot is in the process of loading until it leaves the loading zone.

For anyone who's missed it, here's some recent answers to a couple Q/A:

1852 Section: 4.3.3 Status: Answered Date Answered: 4/13/2005
Q: Please identify ANY and ALL cases in which a TETRA is considered and extension of a Robot. Is it ONLY during the HP loading function, or are there other situations this applies?
A: The tetra is considered part of the robot only during the human player loading sequence. This is for safety reasons. However, a tetra being carried by a robot is still the responsibility of the robot in situations such as de-scoring, removing tetras from an opponents automated loading zone, loading zone interference, etc. In these cases, causality will be the determining factor whether to assess a penalty, etc. Please see updated Q&A 1824 as described in Team Update 18, as well as the updated G15 examples in Team Update #20 that will be posted on Thursday, 4/14/2005.


ID: 1853 Section: 4.3.3 Status: Answered Date Answered: 4/13/2005
Q: Please clarify the conflict between the last (updated) sentence of G15, and the previous examples for certain situations (esp ex 6-7).
A: Nice catch! Thanks for your rigorous review of the rules. The last sentence of G15 takes precedence. Please see Team Update #X20 (this update will be published on Thursday, 4/14/2005) for updated G15 examples.

Sounds like these will be covered in their update today. So basically - the tetra is only "an extension of the robot" when it's in the HP loading zone. However, if you descore, or violate G15, or other things with a tetra in your possession, you'll get a penalty. Makes sense to me, and it keeps with the way the rules are written.

[Kit Gerhart]

Team Update 20 is now posted. It includes some clarifications and changes regarding loading zone interference.

Also, Update 20 lists rules for use of backup robots in the Einstein Playoffs. You can play one Einstein match and officially be a Grand Champion!

[Godzilla!]

New Penalty Sheet with hopefully all changes incorporated. Ensure accuracy before using - Old sheet did not have the S01 10 point penalty.