Teaching "C" to 2006 students??

[Tazlikesrobots]

I would welcome the idea, considering some teams do not have resources with knowledge of C. I love the idea of some sort of autonomy during the competition, but I think it has created a programming gap among teams. Any tool that can help bridge that gap will be well received by anyone.

My dream is to see a tool similar to the Lego Mind storms RCX, where the students create a basic program using a flow chart like layout and have the code generated in the background. Then the student can look at the code and get an idea on how it all fits together.

[cbolin]

Hi,
I am encouraged to write this program now. Time permitting, I'll start putting it together in stages.

With regards,
ChuckB

[JamesBrown]

Well I have been thinking about the same kind of thing. I just taught my self to program this past summer. However I will graduate after next season and since none of the other students or mentors have even looked at the code I have been given the task to teach some one every thing that i know ( which is just enough to make the bot drive and to do dead reckoning) However I will attend all of the programming conferences this year and hope to learn something. If any one is interested in meeting to discuss this topic let me know and maybe we can organize something even if it is dinner at Mc Donalds one night

[Avarik]

I suggest letting the programmers loose on an old robot, if one is available. Have them start with modifying things, and then move to writing their own code.

Edubots are a good alternative, but there are major differences between that and the FRC - so only use it if you dont have anything else.

[JBotAlan]

Originally Posted by cbolin

Great feedback!


I can work with OpenGL in VB6 pretty good...maybe we can make a 3D bot. ;-)

Thanks and regards,
ChuckB

Kinda off topic, but I'm a VB6 programmer and 1) would love to (try to) help with any project like this and 2) learn how to use OpenGL in VB6! I'll try my hand at this after Atlanta and post if anything works well. E-mail me.

[703pascal]

One thing I've noticed is that most people with very little programming experience tend to know a simple language such as BASIC. I propose that we also make a Pseudo-code to C translator of some type. This won't work for everything of course, but for someone who isn't exactly comfortable with C syntax, they'd just have to type out the logic and have it translated for them. Oh, and also, this is my first year w/ FIRST (I'm currently a junior in High School) and I haven't spent much time on the forums, but I intend to a little more next season. I wouldn't mind helping out with this project because I'm going that have to train a bunch of people to program next year anyway. Good effort, keep up the good work.

[billbo911]

Originally Posted by cbolin

Hi,
I am encouraged to write this program now. Time permitting, I'll start putting it together in stages.
ChuckB

WOW!!!
Chuck, where do I begin??

First with me. 2005 is my rookie season. I am one of our teams mentors and their Engineer. Until this year, I have had ZERO programming experience. Consequently, we had no autonomous mode this year, but with a little help from another local team at the Sac. Regional, we were able to get a minor modification to the code completed in time to compete.

Sense that time, I have poured of the FRC code, read the 2004 programmers guide and read "Absolute Beginners Guide to C" by SAMS.

Now I "feel" comfortable enough to start working with C, and teaching our students. As you might guess, I could use any and all the tools mentioned in this thread. I have come up with several ideas, written a few mods, but have yet had a chance to test them. This environment, and the others mentioned, could be the key to our teams (and countless others) future success.

My goal is not to do the programming for this team, but to kick start some young minds and help them see what they are capable of achieving.

If there is any input I can add, help I can provide or just encouragement, please let me know! I think this is awesome!

[Ryan M.]

Originally Posted by 703pascal

One thing I've noticed is that most people with very little programming experience tend to know a simple language such as BASIC. I propose that we also make a Pseudo-code to C translator of some type. This won't work for everything of course, but for someone who isn't exactly comfortable with C syntax, they'd just have to type out the logic and have it translated for them. Oh, and also, this is my first year w/ FIRST (I'm currently a junior in High School) and I haven't spent much time on the forums, but I intend to a little more next season. I wouldn't mind helping out with this project because I'm going that have to train a bunch of people to program next year anyway. Good effort, keep up the good work.

Hm... interesting idea. This could be a very cool tool, even for those of us "experienced" in C. I've currently got a few other projects going on, but this is definitely going on my summer list...

[JP_1163]

Mentor has no computer programming experience.
Program has very limited budget.
Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
Let us know how we can participate and/or work with team programmers who are willing to offer support.

Thanks
Team 1163

[CJO]

Those of you who have talked about using vex controllers, have any of you figured out a way to program the vex robot? If so I am very interested.

[703pascal]

The programming module for Vex robots won't be released until August. Currently there is very limited programming available.

[cbolin]

Hi,
We have a couple of interesting programs (some complete and some in progress). Here is a brief description and the source code in VB6. Please use as you please.

1) We connect our PC to the dashboard connection on the OI panel. We drive the robot for 15 seconds on a test field/floor and operate arms. Motions are slow and deliberate. Using pwm01 - pwm04, these four values are captured each second. The program automatically generated C code. This has worked with some success. This is our teach mode. (See CCodeGen.zip)

2) We have another program in two parts. We must finishing gluing them together. :-) One part consists of four timing diagrams showing 15 seconds on the X axis and 0 to 255 on the Y axis. A mechanic (Non-programmer) selects appropriate pwms... and clicks on the graph to build a timing diagram. For example, pwm01 and pwm02 are left/right motors. Make them run for 3 seconds at a value of 200. Then return to 127. (See auto_gen_...zip)

Now, click one button (a single button only)...and wham! The timing diagram data is converted to C code, incorporated into a C file, the code and all the C modules are compiled, linked and loaded. Voila! The mechanic can now program autonomous modes more easily.

This project has the graphs complete and the one button thing complete...need to work on the C conversion and incorporation.

3) Our C translator program --> Virtual Code to control a Virtual Robot for 15 seconds. Can parse most C code now...must figure in arrays, structures and next if..else if loops. Virtual robot turns. Working on movement now. (See Translator_C...zip)

This is what we have been working on. Our team will be meeting two Saturdays each month during the remainder of the year. We hope to polish these programs into something really useful and friendly by kickoff 2006. (With lots of testing using this year's robot).

Regards,
Chuck B.

[dpick1055]

This looks like a great idea. I come from a team with an extremely limited budget and very little interest in the team (around 10 students). Unfortunately the only other student with some programming background is graduating this year and we do not have a sponsor. Tools like this would be very helpful to our team. Keep up the good work!

[Element97x]

Originally Posted by cbolin

I would like software that allows the student to write legal autonomous "C" code and to test it with a 'virtual robot'. The program would be friendly to the newbie programmer and not intimidating. I want them to be able to open and run sample programs as well as writing and saving their own examples. They could take this home. It would include a "C" programming tutorial and "Autonomous" tutorial so they could self-study. Further, it would be cool if this program could be made available to all teams for free that needed it.

ChuckB

I tried the robotEMU2 and its good if you know about how the pmw's work, because i know how to c program but not for the first program robots so if there was like an acual picture of a robot or something you could test out and watch or control almost like a video game that would be great! because after I learn how to program Id even use it to practice over the summer.