Shafted again

[Daniel Brim]

Originally Posted by Kims Robot

The only thing I would suggest for improvement is to make it clear that these awards are going to be given then. It may have been mentioned somewhere, but our team missed what was going on. We made it for what we expected to be opening ceremonies, only to realize that awards were going on.

It was announced that these awards would be given on Friday in an e-mail blast a few days before the championships.

[omutton]

I agree with Ed's comments. The animation competition is always an afterthought and that will never change because the animations don't benefit FIRST. I don't think they should've put the WFA on Friday because it deserves better than to be put with the animation award.

During the Friday awards ceremony, no one payed attention and no one really cared. The "trash heap" was not given out Saturday night because the closing ceremonies were way too long. I think rather than giving them out on Friday morning, they should give them out Friday night so people might actually listen.

[IMDWalrus]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

And there is a typical attitude towards the animation.
Why is that?
Probably because it has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ROBOT AT ALL! Why should anyone care about it? They have to change the competition so that it is more useful to FIRST's needs instead of just paying lip service to it
I think it needs to be tied into another aspect of the competition like with the Inventor award or the website or retooled so it's better utalized as an actual TV commercial that has to be used on television to actually advertise the team or FIRST or a regional (give them a minute to do so). As it is now it's really not being utalized in a useful manner that serves any real purpose than to give a bunch of talented people a place to showcase their talent in an event that really has nothing to do with what they are doing.
That has to change.

You're right. It does. And there's a good chance that it will, now that Autodesk is becoming a more prominent sponsor.

It's worth pointing out that all of your changes go back to my original point: right now, FIRST doesn't need the animations. It's not tied to the rest of the program in a way that makes it essential. I'd support the animations fully if FIRST changed how they were used, maybe, but they're currently a nice distraction. They aren't pushed by FIRST, it's not easy to see them while at competitions, and they aren't a required part of the competition.

Still, I'd say that the fact that animation is recognized at all while other aspects of FIRST teams are ignored shows that you've already got some respect.

[Jon K.]

I also think that they should go back to the way awards were before '03 where they would go through all the final matches, then give out awards, there was also time for teams to get the division awards before hand, and people did stick around after the event to watch the award ceremony and listen to the speakers. I definitely liked that structure better because there was more focus on each individual event, the final rounds and the awards, versus now where they clump awards in with speakers and matches, which seems to cause everything to go more slowly and have people fall asleep in the stands or go to other measures to end boredom such as paper airplanes and Frisbees coming down from the upper tiers of seats.

[Daniel Brim]

Also, AIA is more "neglected" (notice the quotes) than animations. AIA does not have regional awards (which I'm confident 294 would have won) and this has been the first year in which any other award other than winner has been given. Honestly, though, using Autodesk products is its own reward. Users get a new robotics experience, as well as knowledge that can be used in a career. Can't we all just look at the experiences?

[Ryan Dognaux]

Originally Posted by IMDWalrus

I'd support the animations fully if FIRST changed how they were used, maybe, but they're currently a nice distraction.

So basically, you're saying what I and countless others worked on for six weeks is just a nice distraction?

I'm offended.

Just another example of how few respect the Animators and Inventor people.

Although, I am glad things have advanced since my freshman year. The fact that there is a Regional Award for animation is great. Now there just needs to be a Regional Inventor Award and things would be perfect.

I could really care less as to when the Awards are - as long as most people are present (and most are at opening ceremonies) then it's all good.

[White_Orpheus]

I think the animation needs to be expanded even more. You either win or you lose, and there's no recognition for teams that don't get the big prize. People shift attention onto the robot, but for a lot of us, the animation competition is FIRST. I don't work on the robot. Although I have an interest in it doing well because my team worked on it, I care a hell of a lot more about the animation award than I do about the actual game. For animators, instead of the animation being icing on the robot cake, things are just the opposite. For us, the animation is the main course, and it's rather frustrating to be blown off by people who focus solely on the building of a robot.

For those of you who attempt to marginalize the animators contribution: I dare you to make an animation even coming close to the worst animation submitted this year. I guarantee that 90% of you would fail miserably. It's a lot harder than you guys think and we put a ton of work into making top rate animations. The fact that we have been shortchanged by the powers that be for years is a disgrace to FIRST.

[Rich Kressly]

I think announcing a few Fri morning is fine as long as the teams are aware that this will take place (which could be improved upon). The problem with a Fri PM ceremony is that, with all the teams, matches need to run as long as possible...

[BadKarma]

it really doesn't surprise me when they announced the AVA and AIA winners, nore am i really that bothered by it. it was all intended to shorten the ending cerimony and understand the reasoning behind it. my real problem is the lack of recognizition the AVA submittions are given at the compitions and by first. i must agree that i was extremely disappointed that all the entries were not played at all for the viewing of other participants and am even more annoyed that the scholarship winners weren't announced, with the exception of Mike "Koolaid" of team 11 who had a nice sign made at the northeastern table stating he was the recipient.

[Zing]

On the flip side, the trophies this year were uber cool.


I'd like to say one thing; there never has been an animation that is TV quality. Not worthy of putting an official Autodesk stamp on, anyway. If there was a consistent submittal of professional-looking animations that expressed the FIRST message, Autodesk would be much more interested in the competition.

Don't misunderstand. We work hard, we put in hellish hours. And Autodesk's support has been increasing. But something more still needs to happen before general people can start appreciating our work. Maybe a longer official design period, give us enough to make a detailed, interesting scenes. If I remember the stats correctly, professional studios produce, on average, 3-5 seconds of animation a week. There's just no way an above average team can crank something like that out, not to mention rookie or under-funded teams.

On the other hand, I hear a lot of teams say something similar to "animation is something we leave til the end and throw something together". That is a junk attitude, and I can guarantee that there is someone in that team's school who would very much enjoy using their creativity to make an award-winning video. It is the team's job to find those people, equip them with good mentors and computers, and allow them to get the job done.

As it is, I predict any progress towards a more exciting AVA award will be slow. I have little doubt that it was only included as a contractual stipulation between FIRST and Autodesk so that students would find an interest and eventually buy the software. That doesn't mean, by any measure, that I love creating the video any less. But I do wish we would get a bit more recognition.

[SoftwareBug2.0]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

I don't think I was out of line at all.
The animation aspect has always been an afterthought and it always will be. They don't even show them on the screens anymore at the fields.
I said what I meant and I meant what I said.

Personally, I don't really care about the animations. My team didn't even bother to make one. However, if I had spent the time and effort to make one, I wouldn't be happy.

The thing that bugged me was that they didn't show them on the screens during down times. Even when there were breaks in the competition that were so long the announcer ran out of stories to tell, they didn't show the animations. (The down time I'm talking about was due to technical difficulties, and really did take a long time.)

I just don't understand why they weren't shown. I enjoy seeing them, even if I'm not hoping to get the award. As a driver, I'd much rather watch some of the excellent animations students have put together than just stand around when there's down time.

[Chris Fultz]

I did not walk away with an impression that any of the awards were slighted.

I like that the WFA is announced on Friday - it gives everyone a chance to congratulate the winner, and, especially this year, made the winner behave for two days .
I recall a few years ago when AB received the honor, it was at the end of the ceremonies, and with the Chairmans and Championships and all, it was difficult to talk to him, plus he was down on the comp floor. Having the WFA on Friday makes great sense.

The Animation and Autodesk awards are judged in advance, and so they can be presented on Friday. They got their own special time. I will have to admit I was more alert for them than some of the late Saturday awards.

Everyone should be proud of their work and their recognition - no matter when they were announced.

[corebreach]

Originally Posted by Zing

I'd like to say one thing; there never has been an animation that is TV quality. Not worthy of putting an official Autodesk stamp on, anyway. If there was a consistent submittal of professional-looking animations that expressed the FIRST message, Autodesk would be much more interested in the competition.

Personally I have seen several animations that are very near to the "TV quality" that you speak of. One comes to mind; the 2004 animation featuring the chibi ninja doing training exercises (for which I don't remember the team number offhand) came very close in my opinion.

[takieddine]

Hey i would get mad too, but then again i didnt go to the nationals (nor did my animation). BUT same thing happened at the pittsburgh regional, in that i even recall being surprised that they'd announce it the first day

[Paul Copioli]

O.K. so being one of the people "shafted" by the morning awards I guess I should say something.

The WFA on Friday is a great idea. It gave people the entire competition to find me (if they dared) and congratulate me personally. I thought it was a good idea. Many people congratulated me that I didn't even know and I thought that was really cool.

With regards to the animation and inventor awards, I do see a change in attitude toward Autodesk and these awards, but I really don't see how the Friday a.m. awards ceremony was part of this. Plain and simple, these awards are pre-determined so why not give them out first? The awards ceremony is already too long as it is. Besides, the opening ceremony never really was a big audience getter but I bet next year the attendance at the opening ceremony will be much higher.

Ed, I can tell you first hand that Autodesk has placed a bad taste in our team's mouth. Does the Website award tell you what tools you must use? Does the Industrial design award tell you what tools you must use? The answer to both these questions is "no." Do the animation awards tell you which software you must use? You bet. Does the Inventor Award tell you what software to ... oh wait ... Inventor Award. The Autodesk guy was looking at our poster in front of our pit showing our robot design and use of solid models. He asked, "who did all the great Inventor work?" We replied, "we used SolidWorks." What he said next floored me. He said, "oh, that's too bad ... never-mind." Are you kidding me? That is ridiculous. The Inventor Award is a joke to me because it EXCLUDES any team that chooses to use a different set of tools to do robot design. Anyone who uses Inventor to do design, don't get me wrong, it is a great tool and keep using it but the award has an ulterior motive that just doesn't sit well with me.

-Paul