Religion threads and the CD rules

[Billfred]

Alright, I know a few days ago a couple of religion-based threads were locked in Chit-Chat.

Since the standard has been set, can the forum rules be amended to reflect it? That way, we can simply point to rules on the books instead of having to go back and search for cases where it was applied.

Thanks!

[Eugenia Gabrielov]

I agree with Billfred.

While I heartily respect everybody's religion here, I don't like to see it thrown in people's faces.

I am not sure what rule this would be, because there have been some intersesting and non-locked threads in the past, but perhaps a rule should be reflected to allow this.

[Tristan Lall]

Were these, by any chance, the "Look at me, I'm a Mormon" and "Look at me, I'm an atheist" threads? I don't have any problem whatsoever with people proclaiming their faith (in Chit-Chat, only), but they'd better be ready to have their cherished ideals scrutinized, dissected and yes, even mocked a little. If it's so important that one needs to trumpet it from the rooftops, then fielding a few pointed questions shouldn't represent a deterrent from spreading the word.

On the other hand, would such a rule cause the "Championship Seder" thread to be locked? If not, why not? (Not that I think that locking that thread would be productive.) How would the rule be phrased, so as to avoid this?

If we allow stupidity like "Count to 1000" in Chit-Chat, we can hardly claim to be doing much toward cleaning up the content of the forum by locking and/or deleting a discussion of someone's religious beliefs, and the merits and detriments of such beliefs.

If you're prepared to coherently discuss a religious topic, go on and do it; if you're just posting and running to satisfy your evangelization quota, take your spam elsewhere.

[mtaman02]

While I also stand along side in talking openly about religion and do not poke fun nor mock it I do stand by that this is a FIRST Related forum as well as a Team Website and feel that religion should not have any room in this forum UNLESS it is constantly monitored to ensure that everyones feelings does not get overly hurt. Usually when someone makes fun of anothers beliefs it usually leads to an uncontrollable chaos, and for the sake of the forums that is one thing this forum don't need. AS I said before I respect everyones religions and observe and wish everyone their happy holidays but I feel that this is no place to talk about it whether its joking or an actual bombardment. =( If you would like to have a religion section for the forums then it should have its own closely moderated thread so nothing gets outta hand. We're hear to help one another, not to knock each other down.


Thats Just the way I feel =(

[Jack Jones]

For those who say that CD is a FIRST related forum and there is no room for loosely monitored talk of religion, I offer the following definition to support the argument that FIRST is a religion. The only thing there appears to be no room for on this forum is any talk that in any way challenges that religion:

Originally Posted by The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition. 2000.

religion
NOUN: 1a. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe. b. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship. 2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order. 3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader. 4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

So, when people start a thread to find and communicate with other Mormons, Atheists, Agnostics, or what ever set of moral values, it brings about the fear of potential ungraciousness that your spiritual leaders have so cleverly ingrained within your moral constitution.
...

[Brandon Martus]

Originally Posted by Billfred

Alright, I know a few days ago a couple of religion-based threads were locked in Chit-Chat.

Since the standard has been set, can the forum rules be amended to reflect it? That way, we can simply point to rules on the books instead of having to go back and search for cases where it was applied.

Thanks!

We're working on what exactly we want to do about threads like this. Stay tuned.

[suneel112]

Unlike Politics, faith has almost nothing to do with Robotics, Science, or Engineering. If at all, keep it in the chit-chat forum, but I would support avoiding religion altogether on Chief. There are several other forums where you can discuss religion and politics in general. If one is such a zealot, they should visit one of those sites. FIRST is a program unified by Science, Math, and Engineering, and there is no reason to divide CD users on the basis of non-Science Politics or Religion. I enjoy FIRST's diversity and treatment of religion as a non-issue, so seriously, let's keep Religion a non-issue of FIRST and post somewhere else. I will post and give links to specific religion forums later.

[IMDWalrus]

Originally Posted by suneel112

Unlike Politics, faith has almost nothing to do with Robotics, Science, or Engineering. If at all, keep it in the chit-chat forum, but I would support avoiding religion altogether on Chief. There are several other forums where you can discuss religion and politics in general. If one is such a zealot, they should visit one of those sites. FIRST is a program unified by Science, Math, and Engineering, and there is no reason to divide CD users on the basis of non-Science Politics or Religion. I enjoy FIRST's diversity and treatment of religion as a non-issue, so seriously, let's keep Religion a non-issue of FIRST and post somewhere else. I will post and give links to specific religion forums later.

I'd argue that, simply because the debate over how science and religion can coexist is still a big deal to many people. This is much more of a biology topic than it is a physics one - robots don't evolve, after all, and there's no question over who created them - but it's an important issue in science all the same.

I'm not saying that we should be talking about it here...I just think it's worth pointing out that religion DOES go with science because of the vast difference between the two. If that makes sense, that is.

[Joe Matt]

I vote a big NO for religions opinion threads. I understand that we need a place to talk about it, but unlike politics or other personal opinions, religion is based upon beliefs and ideals, not facts. Not everyone has the same beliefs or ideals, and despite how much we hope, there will be conflict. BUT I think threads about "are you..." where we just check in to see who is like us is great, as long as there is no "I hate..... because...." happens, or ideals and beliefs are expressed.

[Billfred]

Oh dear, everyone's weighed in on it. Guess I might as well too.

Personally, I'm in favor of the posts, provided that the thread stays positive. If someone starts sipping the haterade, then lock it up and shower the offender in a slew of little red dots.

That's my view--ignore or accept at will.

[MrToast]

As a moderator on a primarily programming forum (www.realgurus.com), we have had religion threads come up in our off-topic forum occasionally. We don't disallow them, but we watch them very closely, and if they look like they're going to turn into a religion bashing thread, we post "watch out or it's locked". Then, when required, the thread is locked. Usually they just die out on their own.

It's worked really really well for us.

My $0.02...

Dave

[Bill Moore]

Originally Posted by Billfred

Oh dear, everyone's weighed in on it. Guess I might as well too.

Personally, I'm in favor of the posts, provided that the thread stays positive. If someone starts sipping the haterade, then lock it up and shower the offender in a slew of little red dots.

That's my view--ignore or accept at will.

I think the posts have been positive so far. What I have read is a group of roboticists trying to identify people with similar characteristics, in this case it is religious beliefs. What if someone posts a thread about "Who has red hair?" -- another character trait that has nothing to do with robotics. Do we ban that thread as well?

Trying to connect with people who have the same character traits is not the same as proselyziting. It is trying to make contact with someone who has a common bond. I'm not Jewish, but I greatly appreciated that some folks of that faith wanted to hold a Seder at the Championships. LET THEM CONNECT!

Finally, for folks who claim that Science and Religion cannot co-exist and should not be allowed in these forums, you are yourself guilty of proselytizing. This is not a scientific fact, it hasn't been proven, but it is a belief/viewpoint that you hold. I know this statement will hit a lot of folks "Hot Buttons", but think about it -- You are voicing an opinion/viewpoint that is not shared by others, and you are encouraging those folks to convert to your viewpoint. If they aren't proselytizing, neither should you.

[Cyberguy34000]

Eh, these things are something that can quickly get out of hand, and yet banning or locking them seems a tad extreme. While many people would rather not discuss this stuff, others really love to discuss philosophy, however a few immature remarks by a random visitor and then you've got a full-scale flame war going on.

I propose allowing a moderated sub-forum in chit-chat. Open discussion could then happen for the people who want to talk about that stuff, while flame wars can be avoided.

I personally really love to talk about that stuff, but I've seen it turn into a flame-war a few times, which isn't very pretty. But kept within reason, it's a lot of fun to discuss.

[Mike Ciance]

many say that science is the enemy of religion, so maybe religious discussion on here is a bad idea. as already mentioned, it depends on how mature the people can be

maybe religion could be an option in the profiles, like on myspace

[Eugenia Gabrielov]

After seeing some people weigh in, and discussing the issue with the wonderful Katie Reynolds, I think I can see it a bit better from a mod standpoint.

When there is a religious or political thread, and somebody posts something out of line, do you realize how many emails these people get about it? Not so much from discussion last night, but more from talking in the past, have I noticed that many of these somewhat biased threads give way to inappropriate discussion and thus webmaster and moderator stress. So how do you solve it?

I think that organizational threads such as the Championship Seder are appropriate in that they are not discussing religion itself, or what is right or wrong, but rather stating that there is an issue concerining it. If there were regionals on Christmas or any other prominent religious holiday, I'm sure the same sort of discussion would ensue. As someone above said, let people connect, but on a certain level, bad connections are made when people aren't tolerant of one anothers' opinions.

Most importantly, as this forum community gets bigger, there is going to be a lot more controlling and repitition of these threads. Tell people to search as you will, but it won't always work. Good luck in sorting out this insanely complicated issue.