Cheering, standing ovations, and required team actions during matches and awards

[the_short1]

i also know of a lot of video tapers to be in the stands and we get in the way wwhen ppl stand to cheer.. and scouters . . my suggestion.. why dont the scouters/ filmers for each team have their own section JUST for them < reserved (or on the front row) and not let anyone else sit there.... so others aren't in their way.. i think that would be fair for both teams..

i know at each regional and at the champs, we always send our camera ppl on the front row.. or really high up.. but i saw some teams behind us in galileo trying to film.. and i was like.. are you nuts? .. we have flags and we proudly fly the canada and US flag .. and we have a couple smaller team flags.. and really they should think about that before sitting there..

[Jverdon]

Originally Posted by Rich Kressly

Do we really want to ask these teams to display less enthusiasm and less support for others? My answer is NO. Standing and cheering at appropriate times might be a minor and temporary inconvenience to some, but looking at the big picture, this is behavior FIRST needs to have and needs to foster.

I agree, our team was always standing whenever our Drive Team and robot was around. We also were one of a few teams that gave standing ovations for award winning teams on Newton, i was very suprised to see veteran teams sitting and not cheering. We are a very spirited team and love to cheer, scream, and yell. We were told numerous times by another team that was sitting behind us to sit down, this was distressing for me because like i said we love to cheer. A judge at LSR described are team as the team with the Pshyco Fans, wich we take as a great complement.

[SuperJake]

Originally Posted by the_short1

i also know of a lot of video tapers to be in the stands and we get in the way wwhen ppl stand to cheer.. and scouters . . my suggestion.. why dont the scouters/ filmers for each team have their own section JUST for them < reserved (or on the front row) and not let anyone else sit there.... so others aren't in their way.. i think that would be fair for both teams..

i know at each regional and at the champs, we always send our camera ppl on the front row.. or really high up.. but i saw some teams behind us in galileo trying to film.. and i was like.. are you nuts? .. we have flags and we proudly fly the canada and US flag .. and we have a couple smaller team flags.. and really they should think about that before sitting there..

When I was the lead videographer for MOE back in the day, we always had to prepare for people getting up in front of the cameras. I always set up my tripod right in the middle of my team and extend it up over the raised hands of my team mates in front of me. When the taping was done, I'd always lower it again so it doesn't block everything. It was an easy enough work around. Additionally, with FIRSTs inclusion of media passes for team members makes the taping thing a lot smoother since you can get down in the restricted area around the field.

FIRST is taking care of the video people because a lot of teams use those videos for recruiting or sponsorship purposes. I've also been on the scouting side (if you are idle in the MOE stands, you will quickly be recruited by the scouts) of things. Again, I usually sit at the back of the MOE section so I've got a good buffer between myself and teams in front of us that might be standing up.

[Greg McCoy]

Enthuastic cheering for other teams...man, what a bunch of jerks. Haven't these people heard of gracious professionalism?

At many sporting events (the Indianapolis 500 comes to mind), all of the spectators stand at exciting points such as during the start and finish of the race, or when something exciting happens on the track. Nobody tells anybody else to sit down...if you want to see, you have to stand up too! Why should FIRST be any different?

Perhaps a location should be reserved for scouts or media people wanting to videotape matches, but for the most part complaining that you can't see because other teams are cheering seems silly. Especially during the award ceremonies...what exactly did you want to see, anyway?

[Kevin Sevcik]

I have a perfectly easy and logical solution to this whole problem. We'll take the Texas A&M method of having everyone stand for the entire game/day.

Seriously, though, I have no problem with standing Os and people cheering and stuff, but some consideration needs to be given to the people behind you. There are older and/or less able mentors in the stands and you could be sitting in front of them. If someone asks you to please sit down, think about doing so. Don't assume they're not standing just because they're lazy or not spirited. If you had a teammate with a busted knee or ankle, you wouldn't make him stand up every other match so he could see, would you? Or would you make him get up and change seats every few matches so you wouldn't be standing up in front of him? Like much of life, there's a balance to be struck between your own needs and desires, and those of others.

[AmyPrib]

Originally Posted by the_short1

i also know of a lot of video tapers to be in the stands and we get in the way wwhen ppl stand to cheer.. and scouters . . my suggestion.. why dont the scouters/ filmers for each team have their own section JUST for them < reserved (or on the front row) and not let anyone else sit there.... so others aren't in their way.. i think that would be fair for both teams..

I think it would be good to have sections for scouters/filmers, but a few disadvantages might result:
- This year, depending on how you scout, that's 6 scouts per team.. 84 teams/division.. that's 500+ seats needed just for scouts (potentially). For our team, we have additional 2 people handing out/retrieving sheets every match and organizing.
- Our scouts take turns, that would be a lot of up/down, moving around action in those rows rather than being able to hand over to their teammate.
- Scouts won't be sitting with their team

Whether these weigh out the advantages, don't know.

I am guilty of grumbling and asking people to sit down when they're in front of us, especially when they take up multiple rows across an entire lower section, then everyone up to the top row needs to stand to see. Perhaps consider not stretching across an entire row, but maybe half and going up. That gives opportunity for other teams to sit a little closer, and perhaps half the section not needing to stand. But I understand the enthusiasm, they want to cheer, and we don't want to stifle it. I am one that is always aware of people around me, and I hate the feeling of being in their way. That's just my personality though and don't expect anyone else to be the same. It does make it harder when there are signs and noisemakers, and other stuff that's being held up in front, which makes it harder yet for people to see over.

I would ask, that if you are going to stand for your matches, that you not hold anything over your heads. I also ask that if someone does ask you to sit down, don't cop an attitude, shrug your shoulders, ignore them, or say.... "oh well, that's just the way it is, deal with it, we're not gonna move for you" and act all righteous. I have personally witnessed this by mentors on teams at various events... That's rude. Least you can do is explain the situation nicely. Just be aware of your surroundings. If you're the only 1-2 people standing in a sea of hundreds, sit down. If you're standing in an aisle or stairway, squat. If you're standing up in the front row (and nobody else is), sit. It's surprising how much 1-2 people can block.

Originally Posted by T. Hoffman

Societal norms have been established which dictate that the "standing ovation" is somehow more respectful than clapping and cheering while sitting down. I tend to say pish-posh to stuff like this. If the most important thing to a team who just won a major award is to look up in the stands and count how many people are standing up in the seats to congratulate them, that's pretty sad - they should be jumping and cheering and celebrating their victory with their teammates. Now the CLAPPING AND CHEERING of the crowd - that's a truly great thing that can further fuel the emotions of the winners and make it a truly memorable experience - that's the key part of being respectful at these competitions.

The point is not necessarily to have teams looking up counting who's standing for them... It's people's way of showing great respect for each and every award winner, because every award is just as important as the next... not just the "top prize". But, I'll repeat something I said in the other thread... I was shocked at the lack of applause that occurred during closing ceremonies. If you don't want to stand-O, fine. But clap for cryin' out loud!

[Travis Hoffman]

My personal preference is that we try to separate the act of cheering from the act of standing. The conflict here between those with differing viewpoints is being caused by the act of people standing up and blocking the view of those behind them. I think everyone agrees that cheering and shouting and waving your hands and clapping are all healthy and GP activities. However, whether it is done with the best of intentions, considerate or inconsiderate, rehearsed or unrehearsed, standing up frequently DOES cause problems at times for people sitting behind you. Societal norms have been established which dictate that the "standing ovation" is somehow more respectful than clapping and cheering while sitting down. I tend to say pish-posh to stuff like this. If the most important thing to a team who just won a major award is to look up in the stands and count how many people are standing up in the seats to congratulate them, that's pretty sad - they should be jumping and cheering and celebrating their victory with their teammates. Now the CLAPPING AND CHEERING of the crowd - that's a truly great thing that can further fuel the emotions of the winners and make it a truly memorable experience - that's the key part of being respectful at these competitions.

When my team won the Regional Chairman's Award in Cleveland, and I went down to receive my medal with the rest of the team, I do not recall looking up into the seats to SEE if the rest of the teams were standing up and congratulating us; what I do recall is HEARING their cheers and very much appreciating those. I would not have personally been offended if every single person in the audience had stayed seated. If the arena remained quiet after the winning announcement was made, however, I certainly would have felt embarrassed and disappointed. Catch my drift?

While I completely understand why many people do it, I sometimes find myself rolling my eyes a bit watching teams stand up and sit down in unison each and every time an award is announced. Some might say the more you engage in an activity designed to celebrate and honor the best of the best, the more you diminish its significance. I personally possess just as much respect and admiration for an award-winning team whether I am standing up or sitting on my keister. I also tend to reserve my standing O's for the ultimate winners at an event (Chairman's, Champion, Engineering Inspiration). However, others have a right to think differently, and their methods should be respected, not ridiculed. I just wanted to present this alternate viewpoint as food for thought. For those who do like to stand up frequently, perhaps you can give a bit more thought to the concerns of the people behind you. As rational people living in a GP culture, I'm sure there's a good compromise we can all find together.

LOL why is this even a major point of debate? We must be bored. It's Spring! Let's all take a break, go outside, and do something non-robotic for one day.

[Alex Cormier]

Originally Posted by Tiki

I find that people tend to stand up at the most inopportune times, such as when a robot is about to cap a goal or when the scores are displayed. If you are smart enough to build a robot (although on some teams the kids dont), then you are smart enough to realize when to sit down. Some other teams had an OD on stupid pills or something because they were not courteous at all to anyone sitting behind them or anyone. Ive even told a few people to get out of the way when i was trying to walk down the stairs in the arena, its as if peoples minds freeze during matches, in a time of stupidity or not.

i am trying to make this nicely said. Do you or anyone ever get excited that your team will win a match that is important? We had one guy ask if we couldn't come down to the front and cheer our team on any more Friday and i was in shock! So when the robot is about to stack, i don't see how you can get excited. you spent 6 weeks for the robot to do this one function and all you can do is sit down and clap about it?

[Clark Gilbert]

Originally Posted by Tiki

I find that people tend to stand up at the most inopportune times, such as when a robot is about to cap a goal or when the scores are displayed. If you are smart enough to build a robot (although on some teams the kids dont), then you are smart enough to realize when to sit down. Some other teams had an OD on stupid pills or something because they were not courteous at all to anyone sitting behind them or anyone. Ive even told a few people to get out of the way when i was trying to walk down the stairs in the arena, its as if peoples minds freeze during matches, in a time of stupidity or not.

If you too are smart enough to build a robot, aren't you smart enough to realize that if you stand up and cheer too you can see above them?

I think standing and cheering for anything and everything is great. Sure there may be people who can't see around you, but you do have an opportunity to get up and move, since you didn't pay for your seat. While I was in FIRST for my 4 years we were always encouraged to stand up and cheer for other teams, heck most of the time we have very good friends on those teams. While in high school I had never attended a college level sports event, now that I'm a sophomore in college I can say that I've attended 95% of all of my school's (Purdue) football and basketball games. I can not remember once sitting down during the entire length of a football game, and only recently during basketball season (due to a very disturbed student section).

If you're not willing to show your support for other teams by standing up and applauding/cheering during the awards and matches what is the point of even showing up? You can stay at home and watch the matches over NASA TV in a very comfortable chair.

[The Lucas]

During the awards ceremony, giving a standing ovation for the team receiving the award is a courteous thing to do. You are showing your respect for the team receiving the award. Even if you don't personally know that team (among 341 different teams), the judges choose to recognize them for their efforts and they should be worthy of your respect. We all know how much effort is required just to compete in FIRST and that alone is worthy of a standing ovation in my book.

Having said that, it is not disrespectful to stay in your seat and remain silent during the award presentation. That is your personal choice. Not everyone on my team chooses to stand and cheer, but I'd say over 90% does. If you are going to choose to sit down I don't understand why you are complaining that you can't see. What is there to see? Two people from the team walk down to the stage and get handed a plastic trophy. There is nothing visually spectacular about that (except for the Chairman’s fireworks). What is spectacular about that is the feeling that team gets while accepting an award in front of a stadium full of cheering peers. How can you care so much about seeing this visually unimpressive award presentation that you become irritated when your view is obstructed, but not care enough about it to stand up and join in the cheering? You can't have it both ways.

Matches are a different story. It is important that everyone be able to see the field during matches. There are many people (spectators and scouts) that need to see a match, but don't have a rooting interest. Please sit down after the team interdictions. After the match is dead time. The DJ pumps in dance music, because they want you to standup and dance to fill the dead time.

Another thing that I have yet to see anyone address is moving through the stands during matches. Please wait till the current match is over before moving in or out of the stands. I am guilty of this myself. When you are rushing back to the pits (or somewhere else), it is very easy to forget that everyone else is watching the match and you are walking in front of them. If we make a conscious effort we can stop ourselves from doing this. Matches are only 2 min and 15 sec long and can be quite entertaining if you sit down and watch them before leaving.

Originally Posted by EOC

I observed your team at the championship with a certain degree of envy as our team sat in the stands with little enthusiasm. Your team spirit seemed genuine and unrehearsed; everyone was enjoying themselves. You provided a great role model for other teams.

It is genuine. We cheer like crazy whenever do something successful in the workshop. However, the MOE cheer is rehearsed. We teach that to the rookies in thier first week. I've probably done the MOE cheer a thousand or so times in my five years. It is second nature. Also, we ocassionally have Cha Cha slide breaks during the build season.

[Josh Hambright]

As someone who is guilty of all of the above mentioned activities (standing, cheering, clapping, dancing, waving signs, other forms of spirit) I must say that it is one of my favorite parts of FIRST. There is nothing like the feeling of seeing people cheer for your team or for you or for someone else. Its that spirit of comradery and that commond RECOGNITION of our acomplishments that really makes going to competitions amazing.

I dont know how many times i have heard from people who attend their first competition that one of the first things that they notice is that everyone is cheering and screaming and dancing and its all for robots!

I dont see how stiffleing anyones enthusiasm and excitement over the performance of their robot, or their encouragement of another team is anything but detrimental to the program and to the mission of FIRST.

Who wants to goto a competition and just sit there and golf clap for 8 hours? Not me.


With that said, there are issues of being polite and graciously professional that must be dealt with. If someone asks you to sit because they cannot see. Do not be rude to them. Move to another spot or try and talk to them and work out an agreement. Or take some of the suggestions abo like not taking up a whole row so that everyone behidn you is required to stand.

And as far as the comments about going to a concert and sitting politely. I guesse i just must be going to different shows then you guys, because most of the shows i go see, dont even have seats in the venue.

[Tiki]

I'm one of those people who would rather "golf clap" for 8 hours, I think the competitions should be relaxing, yes I have worked on that robot for six weeks, I have stayed at some strange place until the wee hours of the morning, the last thing i want to do after those six weeks is see an unruly mob cheering for a robot that they and the other 50 kids on their team built (or should i say the 15 engineers ). Unlike other huge teams, my team is limited to only 20 people, around 6 or 7 of whom actually actively participate, so yeah, the work to person ratio is much higher on our team than on some other teams. The size of our team makes it so that even if we cheered, no one would hear it anyway. My team is not not spirited, we are just quiet and reserved and always has been. There are no dedicated scouts on my team, we have to take time off fixing the robot to scout and if people are standing up, blocking the game or the scores, thats a big deal.

[Kevin Sevcik]

Ah. I finally have it. It's pretty simple, too. It boils down to a few questions: Given the standard definition of GP, would it make your grandmother proud if you were standing in front of her blocking her view of your robot? Would you make her get up and move? Would you be upset with her if she just clapped politely and didn't stand and scream for every award?

Just things to keep in mind when you're cheering or you're judging someone else's enthusiasm.

[dbSparx]

Originally Posted by Rich Kressly

Thanks so much for this thread Andy. I came across a similar situation, but even one step worse, in Atlanta this year. A Hall of Fame FIRST team (OK, it's 103) was standing and cheering for their own robot and drive team during a match. A FIRST Ambassador asked the team to sit because others couldn't see. A student politely explained that it was just during their match and that it was common for many teams to do this. The ambassador told this polite student that they weren't demonstrating gracious professionalism by standing. Sigh. Thankfully this is an isolated incident.

This is a team that, six years ago, had nearly no visible team spirit at competitions. In 2001 this team began an incredible transformation. By 2002, it became common for the group to cheer vigorously for their own and other teams. Do we really want to ask these teams to display less enthusiasm and less support for others? My answer is NO. Standing and cheering at appropriate times might be a minor and temporary inconvenience to some, but looking at the big picture, this is behavior FIRST needs to have and needs to foster. Cheering for others is different perhaps, but we are about culture change, aren't we?

Well said. I guess my 2 cents (worth every penny you paid for them) is: every team works hard. We put every bit of blood, sweat and tears we have into making our team and this program successful. We work for six solid weeks...and I mean work (and that doesn't even include the part outside of the time between kickoff and ship).

The vast majority of FIRST members (students and mentors alike) have played a significant role in getting their teams ready for competition. They have earned the right to get excited and have some fun, and it is that fun and excitement that will be remembered for many many years.

Stand and cheer, for your team and any others. Stand tall, cheer loud. You have earned it. If you go home with a voice, you haven't tried hard enough.

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by Tiki

I'm one of those people who would rather "golf clap" for 8 hours, I think the competitions should be relaxing, yes I have worked on that robot for six weeks, I have stayed at some strange place until the wee hours of the morning, the last thing i want to do after those six weeks is see an unruly mob cheering for a robot that they and the other 50 kids on their team built (or should i say the 15 engineers ). Unlike other huge teams, my team is limited to only 20 people, around 6 or 7 of whom actually actively participate, so yeah, the work to person ratio is much higher on our team than on some other teams. The size of our team makes it so that even if we cheered, no one would hear it anyway. My team is not not spirited, we are just quiet and reserved and always has been. There are no dedicated scouts on my team, we have to take time off fixing the robot to scout and if people are standing up, blocking the game or the scores, thats a big deal.

You can just move your team to the front of the stands if it bothers you that much. If the noise and stuff is a problem then wear ear plugs.
the whole 15 engineers comment is not only offensive to me and my team but to many others and that thread has just finally died down so please watch what you say about that because its really not true in most situations.