Cheering, standing ovations, and required team actions during matches and awards

[Kevin Sevcik]

Originally Posted by StephLee

Most of the points I'd like to make have already been made in this thread, so I have just one thing to say: Who in their right mind expects several thousand teenagers and teenagers-at-heart to be quiet, reserved, and serious for three days in a row? It's not happening, especially not considering the amount of work, time and energy that's put into those three days before ever getting there.

If people don't want to cheer at some time, they shouldn't be "forced" to; they probably have a good reason, like being tired or "just not in the mood."

To keep the thread on track, or atleast the track it's mostly taken, I don't think anyone's actually suggested that we try to keep a stadium of high schooler quiet. From what I've read, most everyone is supporting being loud and proud. The only disagreement is between people that want to stand and cheer during matches, etc, and people that end up sitting behind them and don't want to stand and would like to see.

[CyberWolf_22]

I have been to Championship 3 times and at all 3 of them, I have noticed a steady decline in the amount of spirit. My freshmen year my team went to the Houston Championship event, I saw many very established teams standing, cheering, and screaming there hearts out. I knew that cheering and applauding was part of FIRST from attending Lone Star that year but I had never dreamt of the amount of energy and excitement I saw at the Championship. The last two years I have not been as impressed and have still anticipated the excitement I saw at my first championship but have been disappointed the last two years. Don't get me wrong there are still many teams that keep up their energy every year even when other teams do not. Sadly, my team is not always the one standing and cheering but every time other members on our drive team, and I do get to attend a match if we see something that we believe is exciting or an engineering achievement we stand and applaud that team that accomplished it. We also do the same for all teams as they are being introduced and we applaud when the scores are announced.

However, we try to take in consideration of the people behind us. This year at championship only 3 members of my team were able to attend (did not compete just watched and cheered) at are seats on Einstein there was an elderly man behind us who have a cane and obviously could not stand with out discomfort. We still stood and applauded the work of the other teams but tried to keep our standing to brief instances so that the man behind us, and others, could enjoy the ceremonies as much as we were. We did not stand during matches but we did clap and cheer. We stood and applauded during times when what was going on visually was not as important as the fact that the team won the award or that the speaker just gave a good speech.

[eugenebrooks]

Originally Posted by CyberWolf_22

However, we try to take in consideration of the people behind us. This year at championship only 3 members of my team were able to attend (did not compete just watched and cheered) at are seats on Einstein there was an elderly man behind us who have a cane and obviously could not stand with out discomfort. We still stood and applauded the work of the other teams but tried to keep our standing to brief instances so that the man behind us, and others, could enjoy the ceremonies as much as we were.

Thankyou for showing some consideration for the people behind
you who might not be able to stand without discomfort, or other
even more unpleasant medical consequences.
That is the definition of GP.

[dubious elise]

I have to admit, the thing that amazed me the most about robotics competitions was the insane amount of camaraderie that is exhibited in the stands, in the pits, and in the heat of battle. Our team varies by who can come to competitions. At Purdue, we sat in the back of the stands and cheered; at Midwest, we often stood in the front and danced during field repairs/resets.

I must also say, however, that there is a limit. I can understand cheering, I can understand waving banners, I can understand noisemakers (yes, ours were terribly annoying last year and are all in the hands of college students now) but I simply cannot tolerate shrieking. Yes, to the two girls behind me that I gave a stern warning to at the Championships during the Finals matches: though I do believe that you were cheering on your friends, I did not appreciate your shrieks underneath an echoing concrete overhang, and I am truly sorry that three days of sleep deprivation from myself and two teammates exploded all over you. You know that there has to be a limit when people like myself that are nearly deaf in one ear cannot tolerate the noise.

I know this is a bit of a rant, but I needed to get it out. I'm all for the cheering, that is what makes it spectacular for the people in the stands. Shrieking...my ear is still ringing.

[Mike Ciance]

I think that teams should cheer and, if they want, stand for all or some of the time during their matches.

One thing i personally disagree with, however, is when teams cheer ALL THE TIME. Some teams seem to cheer whether it is during one of their matches, during other matches, inbetween matches, or during random uneventful times. I just think that when you cheer ALL THE TIME it loses it's meaning. It also becomes very annoying to some of the others watching. In my opinion, there is a line where "spirited" crosses over into "obnoxious." Sorry to say that some teams cross that line.

Again, just my opinion. I know many would disagree.

[Daniel Brim]

I don't mind when people cheer all the time. I think it livens up the competition. Sure, noisemakers or MOE sticks can be irritating, but they enhance the atmosphere.

However, it still is a pet peeve of mine when people stand during matches. Notice I said during. Honesty, as long as I see the score, I don't care about field reset. Dance it up and have fun, but please be considerate of the people around you.

Using the Grandmother example from my previous post: Grandma sits down when the team in front of her is either sitting or not there. It hurts Grandma to stand. She doesn't want to move because it is uncomfortable. So, while sounding nice, something like Andy's post offering to help her move can be ungracious at a point. Why should a team inconvenience others into moving?

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by DanielBCR

I don't mind when people cheer all the time. I think it livens up the competition. Sure, noisemakers or MOE sticks can be irritating, but they enhance the atmosphere.

No worries, the sticks are no more. but we do have our wobblies.

[Bill Moore]

Originally Posted by DanielBCR

Sure, noisemakers or MOE sticks can be irritating, but they enhance the atmosphere.

Daniel,

I'm glad to see that you recognize the difference between a noisemaker and MOEstix. Noisemakers are just that, whereas MOEstix are finely handcrafted musical instruments made from only the finest hardwoods imported from the jungles of Borneo.

Since the MOEstix have been banned from competition, we have taken that "spirit" item and have recycled it into our team's "Spirit Award". An actual working pair of clapping MOEstix mounted on a wooden base. We began giving them out at the 2004 NJ Regional, and the first recipient was TJ^2 (Team 88). This year team 226 "Hammerheads" won at Pittsburgh, team 571 "Team Paragon" won at Philadelphia, and teams 75 "Team Robo Raiders" and 1108 "Panther Robotics" won at the Championships.

After the MOEstix were banned, a student was walking through our work area with the polycarbonate side sheet of our robot. As he walked, he was wobbling it to produce a noise. A low wavering sound, quieter than the MOEstix, but distinct nonetheless. Such was the start of the "Wobblies". At the Championship in 2004, we were using them in the stands, and one of the field staff asked, "Where is that water coming from?" (They had not seen or heard the Wobblies at that point.)

And, yes, the Wobblies are finely handcrafted musical instruments made from only the finest . . . .

[Kevin Kolodziej]

Originally Posted by Andy Baker

If you find me at a competition and my grandma is sitting behind me, please take the time to kick me in the butt. I would not have my grandma sitting behind me. That would be rude. I would make sure she had a great seat, where I could sit next to her (when I was not pulled away to responsibilities), and where she would not have to sit behind someone who wanted to stand up and cheer. It would be my job to find her an appropriate seat, not inconvenience others in front of her to ask them not to cheer for their team.

Also... if someone I did not know had a grandma (or a person who had a physical limitation in getting up and down) who sat behind me during an awards ceremony, I would turn around and say to this person: "Our team will be standing up, cheering for the other teams who win awards. If you don't like this, I will offer my services to find you a better view to watch the ceremony. You can even sit in the front of our section. By the way, what would you like to drink? I'll buy."

In my opinion, I think that it is more gracious to stand and cheer for your fellow FIRSTers in comparison to obeying the people behind you who simply don't want to stand and cheer. If they don't like the view, then they can move to a better seat.

Andy B.

Unfortunately, not everyone is Andy Baker. If everyone had this mindset, there would be far fewer problems.

I fall into the "Go nuts during awards, sit during matches" category.

At every event we've been to, my father sets up his video camera at the top of his tripod in the top row of seats (so its height does not block anyone because anyone behind him would be standing on the mezzanine) in an attempt to see over the rest of the crowd. Usually it works alright, but not always.

My parents are fairly able to stand if necessary, but they've been sitting with elderly spectators many times this year. At Midwest, there were a couple incidents where both students and mentors ignored their polite requests for a clear view. I believe Atlanta was much better.

At EPCOT, there were two set-ups that I remember: A) Team cheering area at the front of the stage for teams competing in that match, standing, with a raised stage. B) Team cheering area at the front of the stage for teams competing in that match, kneeling, with a non-raised stage. Option B was painful because kneeling on AstroTurf isn't fun, but the staff ensured that you knelt or you were tossed out (bad memories of incidents around me...). Option A seemed to work very well. With this in mind, I present the following solutions:

1. Reserve the front section of seats for elderly people and other video-tapers that do not have access to the field. Scouts can be to the sides of them (since they need in and out access) or behind them. I'm talking about the front 4 rows all the way across the stands...that should be more than enough space and doesn't put teams back that far.

2. Give teams access to the floor and provide bleachers of some sort against the seating wall. That way, its below the seating level of view, is directly in front of the field for clear views, and gives everyone a chance to go on the floor of the dome (its a big deal to some!).

Personally, I love the second option, but there are a few problems. Increased team movement is the biggest, but there are typically 3 minutes of dead time between matches, which is more than enough for 6 teams to move out and 6 to replace them. Maybe there can be an "on-deck" seating area off to the side behind the reserved seating mentioned in "1". Another problem is more staff in the aisles and seats to keep teams moving. Give them a seat, however, and it shouldn't be much of a problem.

Sorry for the long post,

Kev

[tckma]

At every competition I have been to, I have been yelled at by a team sitting behind me for standing and cheering for other teams. I understand not standing up during matches because it blocks your view -- I've said things to other people for doing that, so I understand -- I've also been yelled at for that!

But during the awards ceremonies, come on! This is the infamous "spirit of FIRST." Anyone who does NOT stand and cheer on the other teams just doesn't get it. These awards aren't easy to get, and if a team deserves an award, they deserve to be cheered on for it.

Just my $3.17 (2c adjusted for inflation, result in 1982 dollars).

[Lisa Rodriguez]

I am a firm believer in the "sit down during matches" theory. In the past, my team had decided to show spirit by standing the whole time, when no one was behind us. However, in Atlanta, we got the front seats, and stood up for cheering, then i promptly sat once we were done being announced, to allow those behind me to see. I was questioned as to why I wasn't standing like the rest of the team, and i politely answered that it's rude to block other people's views of the field whether or not it's our match, many people, scouts included need/want to see the match. The adults then had everyone else sit down once we were done cheering, for every match. You CAN cheer sitting down, but those behind you CAN'T see when you cheer standing up.
First wants to become spectator friendly...how friendly is it when you can't see the field?
I believe that spirit has slightly decreased since 02 (when i started) but that may be purely due to changed seating arrangement. In 02, everyone sat with their team, no 2 reps, and everyone was near(ish) to the stage, not as spread out as the dome. I also believe that less people are coming, more teams, but less people, as it costs more to travel, go to championships, etc. But there's still plenty of spirit (as long as MOE's there )
Either way I'm coming back to volunteer next year!!

[SuperJake]

Originally Posted by Keiko173

I believe that spirit has slightly decreased since 02 (when i started) but that may be purely due to changed seating arrangement. In 02, everyone sat with their team, no 2 reps, and everyone was near(ish) to the stage, not as spread out as the dome. I also believe that less people are coming, more teams, but less people, as it costs more to travel, go to championships, etc. But there's still plenty of spirit (as long as MOE's there )
Either way I'm coming back to volunteer next year!!

We like to think the reason FIRST implemented the 2 reps per team rule because in 2002 when MOE won the spirit award at nationals in Orlando, the ENTIRE team went up to the stage. We weren't expecting anything, so (naturally) we were in the back on the risers. It must have taken 20min to get everyone down there to the stage. 2003 was the first year only 2 reps were allowed to go to the stage.

[tckma]

Originally Posted by Keiko173

I believe that spirit has slightly decreased since 02 (when i started) but that may be purely due to changed seating arrangement. In 02, everyone sat with their team, no 2 reps, and everyone was near(ish) to the stage, not as !

Oh definitely. I started in '02 as well, and felt the Disney arrangement was better suited to cheering -- but other than that, not much for it. I wasn't in Houston, so I can't speak to that, but I think the Dome's a better setup overall than Disney.

I like the UTC regional setup versus the Manchester regional, it allows you to get right up front and cheer on your team, and the people sitting down can still see.

If they could find something like that for championships (however, with the sheer number of teams involved, I doubt it) -- it would be ideal.

[Tiki]

I personally disliked the UTC setup, unless you were in the back,you couldn't get a halfway decent looking view of your robot. At that regional, the best you could get was a side view, which was not much help at all. Sure you could get right up close and cheer for your robot, but it was for a price: you couldnt get a good view of it.
At SPBLI, you could definitely go up and cheer for your robot and have a good view all at the same time! (I went right up to the stage, but I was always too busy to cheer, like the rest of my team).
To tell you guys the truth, I never cheered for anything. ever.

[KathieK]

Originally Posted by Tiki

To tell you guys the truth, I never cheered for anything. ever.

Sounds like a road trip to Long Island is in order! Moe, are you up for it? We'll grab TJ2 and Buzz and anyone else up this way that wants to teach Tiki and his teammates how to cheer! We'll tie them up and force them to learn FIRST cheers... oh, wait, I don't think mentors are allowed to tie up students... well, we'll have some of our spirited students tie them up, and force them to learn FIRST cheers... And to paraphrase the TechnoTicks, it will soon get in your blood!