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#1
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Re: are we alone in the universe?
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Further studies showed that some amino acids would have combined with hydrogen cyanide (HCN), which is a byproduct of volcanic activity. This combination would form purines and pyrinidines, which are used to make nucleic acids, which in turn create DNA. So essentially, atoms wouldn't have to form complex cells initially, but rather, start with more simple organic compounds, and combine/evolve into more complex molecules from there. This seems much more likely, and as it's been proven in the lab, is far from impossible to happen in other solar systems. |
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#2
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Re: are we alone in the universe?
This is targeted more toward the discussion in general than the issue at hand.
We all live in a delusional state. Actually, I haven't quite decided whether it's a delusion or an illusion. We see the world however we want to see it. If I want to believe that Microsoft is an evil corporate conglomerate, I’ll be able to find evidence to support it and I’ll be able to find a way to counter any evidence against my belief. (Do some research on dihydrogen monoxide if you’ve never heard of it before) We have a limited view of the world around us. We use what we can see to construct our delusion of the world. Let’s consider the following situation: Ed walks into the other room. You hear the chop saw spin up, then Ed screams. As someone opens the door, you see red splatters all over the walls. What happened? Well, it would be easy to assume that Ed cut his hand off. However, he didn’t. He wanted to get the ketchup out of the bottle, but didn’t realize that it would splatter all over the place when he cut into it. You didn’t have enough information to find the correct solution, but you did have enough to make a very good educated guess. If you never saw Ed again and never found out about the ketchup, you would have gone on believing that he’s missing a hand. Anything you see can be interpreted in many different ways. With something on a large scale, like whether life exists anywhere other than earth, the number possible interpretations increases. Until we’ve checked every planet in the universe (or just find life elsewhere) this discussion will continue forever. |
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#3
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Re: are we alone in the universe?
that is what is so good about discusions. you see when we discuss our limited view evolves and changes and allows us to create a more educated opinion.
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#4
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Re: are we alone in the universe?
The original post as stated is a question of metaphysics. And as such we can not apply the scientific method to it. All we can do is state our individual human feelings and perceptions on the subject. We can not quantify our common perceptions and apply the tool of mathematics to come up with a model that many can agree is a valid model of our common perceptions of reality.
This post is a great example of why every student who is going to go to college for the sciences should take a course in philosophy and study metaphysics and religions. Religions is plural. Part of doing good science is understanding what questions can be studied scientifically and what ones can't. |
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#5
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Re: are we alone in the universe?
I dont understand the assertion that the question of the extent of life spread through the universe is a matter of metaphysics?
We have no problem clearly defining what is alive here on earth, and what is not 'life'. Why should there be any difficulty determining the probability of finding life elsewhere, based on what we already know. Is their any question of whether we have found life on the moon, venus, mars, jupiter? is there any question of whether we can reasonably expect to find life on the sun? Life interacts with the physical world in a well established manner. When does the search for life stop being a matter of physics and probability, and start becoming a matter of philosophy or metaphysics? When does it stop being hard-core science? when we get to the nearest star? the next one after that? 100 light years away? Im speaking of life as we know it: physical organismism that interact with the physical world. Last edited by KenWittlief : 26-07-2005 at 00:03. |
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#6
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Re: are we alone in the universe?
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If you start with a swimming pool full of random amino acids, most of what you have in there will be tar or oil or other toxic substances, not the material you need to form protien, and then DNA. Saying you will form DNA by forming the right amino acids first, and then combining them, doesnt diminish the probability of an entire cell forming by random. Its like saying I will guess this weeks lottery numbers, but I will guess them one at a time. It makes no difference. In the end, the odds are the same. The probability of that first cell forming spontainiously remains the same: astronomically small. |
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#7
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Re: are we alone in the universe?
i believe ken posted earlier that if their were life it would have DNA but i thought allot about that. if DNA is formed by specific amino acids and these in turn are created by specific reactions with certain chemicals than the only way aliens would have a similar form of DNA would for their to be similar conditions present. given the extremely distant probability of earth having a twin i doubt life will have similar building blocks. however how would other chemicals or the same chemicals form with completely different environmental stimuli (like extreme gravity or radiation). if we meet life biologist will have a field day and much of the founding blocks (DNA or even amino acids) will be insanely different from what we know. this of course assumes that the life we meet even has a chemical biology.
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#8
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Re: are we alone in the universe?
How about this:
We've concluded that the probability of life starting in the first place is obscenely low. We know for a fact that it has happened at least once though. What if it happened ONLY once? Not necessarily here though. They've found what could be bacteria in meteorites... If I'm not mistaken, they've found such mereorites a couple times. Some planet with life blew up (possibly Superman style) and something landed on earth providing the beginnings of life here. I think we decided that evolution works? If so, to me, that seems probable. Actually, it seems more likely than life starting on multiple planets... Something else that doesn't seem unreasonable to me is some advanced civilization "seeding" earth. If we ever acquire some sort of interplanetary travel, I'm sure someone would try it. (wait...I think that was on an episode of Star Trek...yes it was...but that doesn't change the fact that it's possible) I don't even think we need interplanetary travel. I'm sure Voyager has all sorts of stuff on it. Think of what would happen if it crashes into some earth-like planet. We could probably launch a few thousand canisters of stuff into space. They'll eventually crash into something. |
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#9
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Re: are we alone in the universe?
The problem isnt crashing into something. Think about this. Take an ameba and put it on the moon how long will it last? How about mars? maybe neptune? The fact is that life is very picky about its home. I would like to see some articles about life in meteors. Ive also heard about this but I would like to know the extent of this life.
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#10
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Re: are we alone in the universe?
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Last edited by sciguy125 : 26-07-2005 at 12:07. |
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#11
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Re: are we alone in the universe?
I was thinking, wouldnt it be ironic if some advanced alien life was colonizing the galaxy, and they discovered you cant put higher lifeforms on a lifeless planet, because there is no organic material for plants and such
so you have to start out by maybe introducing algee into the waters, let that take for a few million years, then maybe seaweed and some plankton, wait another 10 million years then add fish, and maybe some smaller land based plants and animals, slowly working your way up so that after 50 million years you would have a planet that was stable and suitable for intelligent lifeforms to colonize wouldnt it be ironic if they were doing that here on earth, and humans evolved by chance, or by mistake and they show up someday and say "What are you doing here? you totally screwed up the whole planet!" we may have to start all over now! they walk away muttering "Oh man! you turn your back for 100,000 years and look what happens!" Last edited by KenWittlief : 26-07-2005 at 12:10. |
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#12
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Re: are we alone in the universe?
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#13
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Re: are we alone in the universe?
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#14
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Re: are we alone in the universe?
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I could accept the idea of life spreading from one planet to another within the same solar systems, organic material being blasted off one planet, frozen in space, and managing to land on another planet and carry on there. But I find that much less likely to happen between star systems, where the nearest inhabitable star/planet might be 20 or 50 light years away. For life to be moved from one star system to another by natural forces, the time involved would be tens of thousands of years in transit, and the acceleration required to obtain those speeds would shred the cells. But if intelligent life is colonizing the galaxy, with sub-light speed space craft, then studies have shown our entire galaxy could be colonized in about 2 million years. Which is another argument for a lifeless galaxy/universe. The galaxy is 16 billion years old. If it only take 2 million years (0.0125%) to colonize the galaxy then, where are they? Where are the other colonies and why are we not in contact with them? Every inhabitable planet in the galaxy should be colonized by now. |
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#15
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Re: are we alone in the universe?
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