Is it allowed (Website Design/Award Question)

[Schu]

This year i believe i am going to switch the team site over to PHP NUKE. The reason is because this year i am not going to be able to work on it as much as i did last year, and the new rookies to the team do not have any experience. Due to the fact that i am good at hacking and recoding Nuke (since i have done it for 3 years now on a different website) i will be able to run the website and help teach the new rookies how to code in php a bit, this will also get them ready to maybe write there own next year. But what i need to know is if i were to send it in to be judged for an award would it be judged, or is it in violation of the website rules (which i tried to find but could not find). I know that my team will want to submit it, but i want to make sure that it will be allowed..


Thanks so much for your time......

[Arefin Bari]

The Award section tells you the rules for the website criteria (2005). It's on page 25. I am not a website guy, I don't know if they will score it or not. But if you read the rules for 2005, you might be able to figure it out. Hope it helps. Good luck.

[JohnBoucher]

I'm not sure what you are asking. Are you asking if PHP Nuke is OK or is your help ok?

The answer, as far as I can tell, is yes and yes as long as the students do the website work. BUT check out the 2006 rules when they are released.

jb

Originally Posted by Schu

This year i believe i am going to switch the team site over to PHP NUKE. The reason is because this year i am not going to be able to work on it as much as i did last year, and the new rookies to the team do not have any experience. Due to the fact that i am good at hacking and recoding Nuke (since i have done it for 3 years now on a different website) i will be able to run the website and help teach the new rookies how to code in php a bit, this will also get them ready to maybe write there own next year. But what i need to know is if i were to send it in to be judged for an award would it be judged, or is it in violation of the website rules (which i tried to find but could not find). I know that my team will want to submit it, but i want to make sure that it will be allowed..


Thanks so much for your time......

[Schu]

yea, sorry i should have been a bit clearer....


What i was asking was is PHP NUKE allowed, and can it be judged...


And yes, i will def. check the rules once they are released.....




THANKS

[JohnBoucher]

Last yea there was no restriction on technology. If it will render then put it up.

Originally Posted by Schu

yea, sorry i should have been a bit clearer....


What i was asking was is PHP NUKE allowed, and can it be judged...


And yes, i will def. check the rules once they are released.....




THANKS

[jonathan lall]

The rules say that the site must be completely "student-designed, built, and managed." Which means approximately nothing to anybody that has to read and interpret them, other than "don't buy a website or let your mentors do anything." Let's think about it for a second. Are we to condemn designers that use someone else's Javascript or forum software under a legitimate license? Of course not is the obvious answer. Most websites that win awards do exactly that, so that's obviously not what FIRST meant in the rules by 'student-made' (and even if it was, it'd be an impossible rule to follow or enforce, plus it would mean FIRST has set incredibly bad precedents in handing out awards). It follows from this logic however, that full website software under a legitimate license must be legal, because there's no clear distinction. Since things like phpBB and free Javascript code are allowed to be on winning websites, PHP-Nuke must also be allowed.

In other words, there was nothing that said you couldn't use pre-made portal software in last year's rules. To add to that, I can personally say with a fair amount of certainty that there won't ever be one.

But.

I wouldn't suggest you go that way if your goal is to bring an award home (which it is), because such sites often have little creative effort on the part of students, and when they actually do, FIRST judges don't notice it. Let's think seriously and honestly about it. Would you want to enter in a site that is basically already made for you, for which you've changed the words and the site template? If the answer is yes, let me tell you, you're not going to get an award, even if you have all the silly rubric criteria down. I think FIRST is right to frown on these pre-mades as competition websites aimed to exemplify a team and its members' technical skill. That is the reason the Website Award exists, and I think judges have thus far done a good job of upholding it. In the end it's your choice. Sites that use portal software have won in the past, but don't say you weren't warned if you don't!

Either way, good luck with your website.

[JohnBoucher]

I agree 100% with jonathan, but want I want to add to it is regardless of the technology, the key is content. Work on good content. Don't let the technology get in the way.

[Schu]

yea i agree also....... ok thanks alot, i would rather make it my self, but it really a time issue, and hopefully next year the rookies i teach can make one them self.......

[roboticsguy1988]

I personally would disagree with using PHP Nuke. Just because of the fact its not coded by "rules"... if you go and check page validation just after installing you will get a ton of invalid code errors. Not to mention all the security holes in PHP Nuke.

I would personally go with Mambo.... you can do anything you can do with Nuke if not more. Its easy to manage. Its Secure. And its fully valid.

But do note something else with both PHP Nuke and Mambo... if you get any custom modules or components... the code for them may or may not be valid but the CMS itself is.

[Rohan_DHS]

yea, I have to agree with roboticsguy (aka larry ) php nuke does have security holes in it...

Originally Posted by JohnBoucher

I agree 100% with jonathan, but want I want to add to it is regardless of the technology, the key is content. Work on good content. Don't let the technology get in the way.

Hey, jb, I too am working on a website for my team...now, when you say good content, what are some things that can be considered good? right now I have index (for news and stuff), media, game rules, about us, resources, forums...those are the main parts of my website, should I add/remove anything? ideas appreciated

Muchos thanks

[sanddrag]

Originally Posted by Rohan_DHS

Hey, jb, I too am working on a website for my team...now, when you say good content, what are some things that can be considered good? right now I have index (for news and stuff), media, game rules, about us, resources, forums...those are the main parts of my website, should I add/remove anything? ideas appreciated

Muchos thanks

I think a contact us page is a definite must. Also, maybe some sort of "sponsorship opportunities" page. And last, maybe a page with a couple paragraphs that outline how your season went. Finally, a calendar may not be a bad idea too.

[JohnBoucher]

Content is just about anything. Keep it short and interesting. Web readers don't spend a lot of time reading. Rotate often. A short incomplete list follows.

• Info about FIRST
• Info about Game
• link to newspaper articles about you
• team history
• pictures
• what you are going now
• Spotlight a student or mentor
• Spotlight a sponsor
• talk about what your graduated FIRST students have done
• Talk about other teams
• Robots in the news

Lots of stuff qualifies as content.

You are building content to showcase your team and FIRST.

[Rohan_DHS]

Originally Posted by sanddrag

I think a contact us page is a definite must. Also, maybe some sort of "sponsorship opportunities" page. And last, maybe a page with a couple paragraphs that outline how your season went. Finally, a calendar may not be a bad idea too.

Awesome, I especially like the idea about the calendar =) I never thought of that lol

Originally Posted by JohnBoucher

Content is just about anything. Keep it short and interesting. Web readers don't spend a lot of time reading. Rotate often. A short incomplete list follows.

• Info about FIRST
• Info about Game
• link to newspaper articles about you
• team history
• pictures
• what you are going now
• Spotlight a student or mentor
• Spotlight a sponsor
• talk about what your graduated FIRST students have done
• Talk about other teams
• Robots in the news

Lots of stuff qualifies as content.

You are building content to showcase your team and FIRST.

nice I like the list here too =)

Thanks for all the pointers guys I'm going to try to incorporate these into the site

[roboticsguy1988]

Originally Posted by jonathan lall

I wouldn't suggest you go that way if your goal is to bring an award home (which it is), because such sites often have little creative effort on the part of students, and when they actually do, FIRST judges don't notice it. Let's think seriously and honestly about it. Would you want to enter in a site that is basically already made for you, for which you've changed the words and the site template? If the answer is yes, let me tell you, you're not going to get an award, even if you have all the silly rubric criteria down. I think FIRST is right to frown on these pre-mades as competition websites aimed to exemplify a team and its members' technical skill. That is the reason the Website Award exists, and I think judges have thus far done a good job of upholding it. In the end it's your choice. Sites that use portal software have won in the past, but don't say you weren't warned if you don't!

I know this is an old post i just happened to be exploring... but i have to disagree once again. While yes a CMS makes it easier to manage say content. You still spend LOTS + TONS of time working on the site. Take my teams website. It uses mambo. But i have spent forever modifying, making things work right, adding special stuff, managing it, modifying images, editing code, i could go on and on.

I think that while building a site form the ground up and coding it all yourself is great. I think you can learn a lot more from learning how to modify, fix, add, etc. by using a CMS.

I also think that using a CMS or a template is more of a real world thing these days than building a site form nothing. I mean think about it, do you really think places hard code everything... I think they would have some sort of CMS (GUI) way of editing stuff.

But yes i DO believe you should know the code HTML, PHP, Java script, etc. before using a CMS.

Thats my opinion, just throwing it out there, if someone wants to catch it and form it into there own opinion thats fine, otherwise it can land in a little puddle, lol.

[hao1300]

Using a CMS is a good way to start. I started web-designing with PHP-Nuke too, but later I realized that I did not want to use some pre-made scripts to win an award, so I just started coding my own website using primitive PHP coding method. My team's website is now entirely student-coded, it is not as complex as PHP-Nuke, but it is easier for me to customize...