Purchase/Prebuild - What's the difference?

[Ken Patton]

This has been a great discussion. I admit that I have never been a fan of replacing "creativity" with "plug-and-play someone elses idea" but the discussion has helped me to understand that the buy-a-transmission route is not necessarily something that will hurt creativity. So I'm more positive on the idea than ever before, and I'll quit grumbling to myself now...

Karthik's comments on this topic and Andy's capitalism comment hit home for me. Thanks guys.

I hope FIRST will make sure their rules and team guidance capture this sort of evolution of the game. It should be clear to every team (even to those who don't have CD addicts) what is available, how to best obtain the hardware, and how it is to be accounted for within the rules.

Maybe something on the FIRST website that includes "non-FIRST systems that you can buy for your FIRST robot."

As far as people from AndyMark helping specific teams, I say have at it. I'm expecting them to SPONSOR a team in the 2007 season .

Ken

[dlavery]

Originally Posted by Ken Patton

As far as people from AndyMark helping specific teams, I say have at it. I'm expecting them to SPONSOR a team in the 2007 season .

Ahem. 2006!!

-dave

[mechanicalbrain]

I have two questions. Can you use pieces you have prepared for use? Like if i had a 1" by 2" piece of Plexiglas and i cut it in half in preparation for the robot is it OK? Also what are the rules on reusing pieces? I want to reuse the electrical enclosure that I'm making next year. Ill remove everything in the box even take the box apart into its components but i want to reuse it.

[Steve W]

Originally Posted by mechanicalbrain

I have two questions. Can you use pieces you have prepared for use? Like if i had a 1" by 2" piece of Plexiglas and i cut it in half in preparation for the robot is it OK? Also what are the rules on reusing pieces? I want to reuse the electrical enclosure that I'm making next year. Ill remove everything in the box even take the box apart into its components but i want to reuse it.

To cut raw material to approximate size (legality) or for storage is OK. If however you are cutting to exact sizes then it is illegal. Again with part 2 of your question there are legalities involved and they are year dependent.As of last year, I believe, that the rule was only specific KOP's were allowed from other robots.

[Billfred]

Originally Posted by mechanicalbrain

I have two questions. Can you use pieces you have prepared for use? Like if i had a 1" by 2" piece of Plexiglas and i cut it in half in preparation for the robot is it OK? Also what are the rules on reusing pieces? I want to reuse the electrical enclosure that I'm making next year. Ill remove everything in the box even take the box apart into its components but i want to reuse it.

<R21> MECHANISMS from robots entered in previous FIRST competitions may not be used.

MECHANISM – A COTS or custom assembly of COMPONENTS that provide specific functionality on the robot. A MECHANISM can be disassembled (and then reassembled) into individual COMPONENTS without damage to the parts.

So the electrical box would most likely have to be redone. As for cutting the plexiglass, cutting a 1x2 piece in half would sound eerily close to fabrication before Kickoff. (A few inches of plexiglass can be cut after Kickoff with ease. Now, if you had enough aluminum to cover the student parking lots of the University of South Carolina, and you had to cut it in half to get it to fit inside your storage area, that would probably be a different story. Anyone with good sense would know that you weren't fabricating in that case, you were housekeeping.)

(Actually, now that I think of it, you probably could get enough aluminum to cover the student parking lots to fit inside a storage closet uncut. There isn't that much anymore. )

[dlavery]

Originally Posted by mechanicalbrain

I have two questions. Can you use pieces you have prepared for use? Like if i had a 1" by 2" piece of Plexiglas and i cut it in half in preparation for the robot is it OK? Also what are the rules on reusing pieces? I want to reuse the electrical enclosure that I'm making next year. Ill remove everything in the box even take the box apart into its components but i want to reuse it.

...and the correct answer is: NO ONE KNOWS!

It has been said before many times, but it bears repeating again - you can NOT assume that last year's rules for a certain situation will still be valid for the same situation next year. Elements of the robot construction and materials use rules are modified every year based on changes in the available materials, alterations in the kit of parts, design changes forced by the game, venue limitations, refinement of the "legal use" definitions, to prevent teams from obtaining an unfair advantage by starting construction prior to kick-off, and just to play with our minds. Assuming that you can prepare parts prior to kick-off, or re-use parts from last year, is tempting the fates. The very fact that parts are rumored to be being re-used may be sufficient reason for the rule-makers to change a rule to prevent the re-use of that very part (not that they would ever be that devious! ).

-dave

[mechanicalbrain]

Ive come to this conclusion. If i alter anything into a otherwise readily available and legal piece than the alteration is legal. So i can buy a 1 x 1 piece of Plexiglas before competition and it would be legal so cutting a 2 x 1 piece in half is also legal. Applying the same idea to reusing parts the piece would have to be buy able. So no i can't reuse the box (unless something changes in the rules) however i can reuse components in the box (lights, keypad, etc...). Overall this seems pretty reasonable.

[dlavery]

Originally Posted by mechanicalbrain

So no i can't reuse the box ... however i can reuse components in the box

Go back two messages. Read it. Now read it again. Your conclusion is based on potentially invalid assumptions that may end up biting you in the rear if you are not careful.

-dave