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Unread 31-08-2005, 01:23
Tom Bottiglieri Tom Bottiglieri is offline
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GM Announces Autonomously Driven Car

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=107011

Quote:
RUSSELSHEIM, Germany — General Motors is preparing to launch a revolutionary self-driving system on the 2008 Opel Vectra.

The car will be capable of piloting itself at speeds up to 60 mph in heavy traffic without any input from the driver sitting behind the steering wheel.

GM claims the system, called Traffic Assist, will make driving safer and more relaxing. It uses lasers, a video camera and plenty of computing power to "see" signs, bends, other vehicles and lane markings, and to control the engine, steering and brakes to keep the car in the correct position on the road and maintain a safe distance from the vehicle in front.

The system is to become available on more models by the end of the decade — initially other cars on the Epsilon platform, including the next Saab 9-3, Cadillac BLS and Saturn Aura. Whether it will be launched in the U.S. will depend on whether administrators deem it safe — product liability laws are different in America.

GM expects the package to be about 50-percent more expensive than conventional active cruise control radar equipment, which controls distances but cannot steer the car.
Looks like us crazy FIRST robot programmers might actually be able to have a job in which the end product is used by consumers! Neato!
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Unread 31-08-2005, 01:49
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Re: GM Announces Autonomously Driven Car

I think this is horrible. As if driving wasn't easy enough already, now the "driver" doesn't have to do anything at all. I drive 75 miles every day 5 days a week and I encounter more than my fair share of IDIOTS along the way. I've had giant trucks and busses in the fast lane and carpool lane, I've had people on cell phones, people smoking, people eating, people doing all three. People running stop signs, people swerving out of their lanes. People cutting me off, people switching lanes without signaling or looking, people going so slow that they hold up traffic for miles behind them, and the list goes on.

People cannot drive. It is a fact of life. I have seen such poor quality of driving on a day to day basis that it is truly astonishing that more accidents don't occur.

So, people cannot drive. Let's not go out and teach them how, let's have a computer to it for them!?!?!? That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. How are people ever supposed to become better drivers if there isn't some challenge in it?

Or how about this, now that the car does all the driving, it is okay to load up on alcohol first because you don't have any part in the driving process??? Lets do that.

Or what about this: What happens when this car malfunctions and kills someone? It used to be easy after motor vehicle killed someone. The driver would get prosecuted criminally for manslaughter and go to prison and get sued civilly and have top pay damages. But what now? There is no driver to be at fault. I don't think the GM engineers will be going to prison. Suing a big company is harder/more costly than an individual, and it will take much longer too.

At times I wish there was no such thing as the automatic transmission. If people were forced to develop some coordination and concentration skills while driving, it would lead to a much better quality of driving.

Driving training and retraining programs permit/license testing and retesting, are already insufficient. People whip through training/education, get their license, then break all the laws and crash. Because they aren't really good drivers; they were just good enough to pass.

So, instead of making it easier for people to drive, let's better educate and train them to face the challenge of manual control.

It's like, how lazy have we gotten if you aren't even willing to turn a steering wheel a few degrees? Pathetic if you ask me.

There are some things that computerized systems should never take control of. A computer can never replace a well trained driver and it is certainly not the solution to aid the bad drivers.
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Last edited by sanddrag : 31-08-2005 at 01:51.
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Unread 31-08-2005, 03:39
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Re: GM Announces Autonomously Driven Car

I have to agree with sanddrag, even though it is real neat that they've gotten cars to drive autonomously; having a computer-driven robot means a lot of new possibilities, and not all are good. In addition to the things sanddrag said above, now you've given just about everyone the ability to drive, that means those who really shouldn't be driving (like really young kids that get hyped up about racing after playing one too many video games) the ability to drive. Sure you could say that the car will be full-auto pilot and not let anyone influence the car's driving, but I just have a gut feeling that making driving even easier than it is currently, is not a good thing.

As if we need more lazy drivers =P, again like sanddrag said. In fact, today while driving home (I live in the bay area, btw) from a friend's house, while I was on the on-ramp to 101 north from the 85 north junction, a white honda civic just merged full speed ahead right NEXT to my car -- he/she basically merged into my lane and would have rammed directly into my car. Wouldn't have been pretty, but I swerved away and the driver STILL didn't notice until the car behind me almost hit him (who also swerved out of the way), then the civic steers into the shoulder and into the dirt. I drive a pretty big SUV too, I don't see how he could have not seen me -- I would have crushed his car pretty badly as well. Gah... lazy drivers.
Driving probably is one of the things that really should not be done by a computer. Just my opinion...
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Unread 31-08-2005, 07:04
Jack Jones Jack Jones is offline
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Re: GM Announces Autonomously Driven Car

I would have been impressed if GM could have gotten a FIRST robot to cap the center goal in autonomous; so, I'd be absolutely floored if they get a car to read signs as well as the mind of that lady putting on make-up at speeds up to 60. (BTW - who goes 60?)

Seriously though, I'd rather see GM work on producing brake rotors that last more than 30k miles, and putting the power window buttons, headlights, windshield wipers, etc. where I can find them without having to take my eyes off the road. Humm, maybe that's why they need the autonomous drive?
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Unread 31-08-2005, 08:11
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Re: GM Announces Autonomously Driven Car

I enjoy driving. I don't want it done automatically. Cruise control is enough. I grew up in the 60's watching the Jetsons. When I was a kid I thought the world would be like that. What I want and would put down some serious money for is Rosie the robot. I want my clothes cleaned and put away, the floors scrubbed, the lawn cut, bushes trimmed, and all those irritating little chores done automatically for me on a continuous basis. I'm 47. Will I see it in my life time?
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Unread 31-08-2005, 10:06
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Re: GM Announces Autonomously Driven Car

I think it is nice that they followed through on this project (I recollect having read something about it a few years ago in, I believe, Tech Review) but now it is time to put it to good use... the DARPA Grand Challenge Race!

Honestly, with the speed limitations, as some of you have already mentioned, this car may only be useful as a resort/city vehicle for now. And what about highway signs like the ones we have around my home that read "Old Hwy 164, Formerly CR-J" , "New Hwy 164, Formerly CR-F", and "Hwy 164/ CR-K". Even I can't make sense out of those, let alone know where each one now travels to! Just like with Mapquest, you can't expect the car to know every new road, construction project, detour, or shortcut.

The only saving grace is that the United States has much stronger restrictions on what kind of silly technologies we allow into our vehicles.

Besides, who wouldn't want to see a car try to putter along the "unlimited speed" sections of the Autobahn at 60 mph?
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Unread 31-08-2005, 11:15
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Re: GM Announces Autonomously Driven Car

Ok, here are my views on this controversial topic...

Cars...should we be inventing new and innovative technology? YES. Should we develop a "lazy man/woman" car? ABSOLUTLY NOT. See the way i look at it is, if we cant drive safely now, whats going to happen when a auton car is traveling at 60 doing its own thing and all of a sudden some lunatic swerves to impair the robots sensors and the car gets confused? someones going to end up killed. I also see it as a way for people to get more and more distracted on the highway, ive seen people reading, doing makeup, this one's good...changing a diaper, and etc. It'll. just be an incentive for people to do more stupid things behind the wheel. I agree 100% to what sanddrag had said, and then some.
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Unread 31-08-2005, 11:20
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Re: GM Announces Autonomously Driven Car

I seem to recall way back when that people testing autonomous systems in cars used a closed-off section of highway. Perhaps that'd be the way to run such a system, especially around cities. It'd yield two advantages:
1) People see those cars whizzing by and think "Man, I need one of those!" leading to more autonomous vehicular goodness (and thus they could do those stupid things with fewer problems.
2) With a proper concrete barrier, no idiots could slow me down (temporarily or permanently).
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Unread 31-08-2005, 12:31
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Re: GM Announces Autonomously Driven Car

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Perkins
Ok, here are my views on this controversial topic...

Cars...should we be inventing new and innovative technology? YES. Should we develop a "lazy man/woman" car? ABSOLUTLY NOT. See the way i look at it is, if we cant drive safely now, whats going to happen when a auton car is traveling at 60 doing its own thing and all of a sudden some lunatic swerves to impair the robots sensors and the car gets confused? someones going to end up killed. I also see it as a way for people to get more and more distracted on the highway, ive seen people reading, doing makeup, this one's good...changing a diaper, and etc. It'll. just be an incentive for people to do more stupid things behind the wheel. I agree 100% to what sanddrag had said, and then some.
I was amazed to see the negative response this article has received so far. I think that is a GREAT thing. There is no doubt in my mind that people in these cars may die, or even that it is a fault in the car itself. There are ~40,000 people that die in car accidents every year. If the technology that these cars reduces that rate in any way then I think it is a good thing.

The car companies are always trying to make the vehicles we ride in safer, and I am sure that they would not take the liability of releasing a system that would injure more people than it would save. Engineers are always trying to improve the quality of life by making more useful and safer automobiles.
A common saying comes to mind: 'Design it to be idiot proof, and there will be a bigger idiot.' Its almost like taking the idiot partially out of the equation.
Greg, the reason I wanted to quote your post is because there is some irony involved. Take every 'car' in your post and replace it with 'scooter'. Then take a look at your who am I picture.

I guess my overall point is that new technology is usually safer than old technology, that is why money is put toward designing/building it. I do not feel that the article tells me enough about how the system works for me to say 'that's not safe at all'.

-Eric
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Unread 31-08-2005, 12:55
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Re: GM Announces Autonomously Driven Car

Although I specialize in controls for my team, I have to say that I disapprove of autonomously driven cars. For one thing, there could be far too much clutter in the controls system, and too many lasers and sensors to worry about. If one of those components fail, there will be trouble for the full operation of the autonomous drive. Until further development of the compactness and the simplicity of such control system, I believe such a project should have to wait. There are other components of the vehicle to worry about, and to add another component would be overwhelming for the owner of the car.

People should be more responsible when driving a vehicle.
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Unread 31-08-2005, 13:07
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Re: GM Announces Autonomously Driven Car

Has anybody ever heard of autopilot? They use it in airplanes.
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Unread 31-08-2005, 13:22
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Re: GM Announces Autonomously Driven Car

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Kelly
Has anybody ever heard of autopilot? They use it in airplanes.
The difference between autopilot and and autonomous car is that in the air, there aren't any airplanes within miles of you, unless you are flying a military jet in formation. On the road, you have a car within a couple feet of you side to side, and maybe one ten to twenty feet ahead of you and another that is (hopefully) the same distance behind you. And, on the road, the surface is variable depending on conditions. In the air, you don't really have any variation (to my knowledge) unless there's a storm or a thermal. Also, in a typical airplane, you can have up to two pilots (one is the copilot) who can both fly the plane. In a car, one driver at a time and no backup system. I don't think autopilot is a good analogy here...
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Unread 31-08-2005, 13:24
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Re: GM Announces Autonomously Driven Car

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Kelly
Has anybody ever heard of autopilot? They use it in airplanes.
They wouldn't if they flew Malfunction Junction, where I-96 meets I-696 meets I-275 meets M-5 near me.

Nor would they if my wife was running a little late on her flight to work.
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Unread 31-08-2005, 13:41
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Re: GM Announces Autonomously Driven Car

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric O
I was amazed to see the negative response this article has received so far. I think that is a GREAT thing. There is no doubt in my mind that people in these cars may die, or even that it is a fault in the car itself. There are ~40,000 people that die in car accidents every year. If the technology that these cars reduces that rate in any way then I think it is a good thing.

The car companies are always trying to make the vehicles we ride in safer, and I am sure that they would not take the liability of releasing a system that would injure more people than it would save. Engineers are always trying to improve the quality of life by making more useful and safer automobiles.
A common saying comes to mind: 'Design it to be idiot proof, and there will be a bigger idiot.' Its almost like taking the idiot partially out of the equation.
Greg, the reason I wanted to quote your post is because there is some irony involved. Take every 'car' in your post and replace it with 'scooter'. Then take a look at your who am I picture.

I guess my overall point is that new technology is usually safer than old technology, that is why money is put toward designing/building it. I do not feel that the article tells me enough about how the system works for me to say 'that's not safe at all'.

-Eric
Eric, thanks for criticizing my post, i wrote that too quickly this morning and never proofread it. I do think that automotive companies should keep innovating, however i think that there are other categories that they should focus on. IE safter cars, not cars that drive themselves. thats what i really was trying to aim at. Or ways of making the so called "50mpg" engine, SUV's with lowered CG, or alternate fuels. i just dont see autonomous cars being as useful as the other things i mentioned. Do i think that this is good technology? yes, i do think it is, i just dont think its the top priority.
As for the segway comment, a segway only travels 12-13mph, not 60, thus the technology in the segway is useful, much safer and the human is still in full control of the segway. from what the article says the computer on the car will completely not need human input.
again, good technology...bad priority
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Unread 31-08-2005, 14:26
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Re: GM Announces Autonomously Driven Car

i think it's an interesting idea. but it's not fully practical. humans need the ability to take control. it's just like our calculators in a way. the computer in there can only do so much with what it's told. there are some things it can't. if like some have pointed out before.. some can fail so therefore you need a way to take control. it perhaps may be able to help w/ driving with the different sensors...

but new technology can be helpful yet at time it isn't. we should though i think keep an open mind. who knows what other things will come from this

that's just my two cents.. happy thinking...
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