Delphi Bankruptcy

[Shu Song]

That's terrible. I hope that none of the other automotive companies that sponsor FIRST and its teams file for bankruptcy. That would be detrimental to FIRST and I don't even wanna think about what might happen if something like this did happen.

[Adam Richards]

This was actually starting to be noticed around Q4 2004 when they had a nice 4 billion dollar income tax cost incurred (thank you government ). They were starting to lose their footing back in Q3, where they incurred losses of $113million, but the income tax really just decimated them. They lost a further $726million in the Q1 and Q2 of this year, making the likelihood of them being able to keep themselves afloat at their current rate very difficult to say the least.

This is truly going to affect the FIRST community in a very bad way in the next few years, and we can only hope that either the affected teams are kept on the budget or that they are able to find sponsors for the 2007 or 2008 season, depending on if/when the cut occurs.

(Data taken from Hoovers.com)

[phrontist]

Originally Posted by Adam Richards

This was actually starting to be noticed around Q4 2004 when they had a nice 4 billion dollar income tax cost incurred (thank you government ). They were starting to lose their footing back in Q3, where they incurred losses of $113million, but the income tax really just decimated them. They lost a further $726million in the Q1 and Q2 of this year, making the likelihood of them being able to keep themselves afloat at their current rate very difficult to say the least.

This is truly going to affect the FIRST community in a very bad way in the next few years, and we can only hope that either the affected teams are kept on the budget or that they are able to find sponsors for the 2007 or 2008 season, depending on if/when the cut occurs.

(Data taken from Hoovers.com)

Wait... do you mean to imply the government shouldn't have taxed them?! I don't care what they sponsor, I don't feel bad for a company that goes under due to variables within their control, espescially a car company. In a free-market democracy, the majority gets what it deserves.

What's the old saying? Death and something...

[Adam Richards]

Originally Posted by phrontist

Wait... do you mean to imply the government shouldn't have taxed them?! I don't care what they sponsor, I don't feel bad for a company that goes under due to variables within their control, espescially a car company. In a free-market democracy, the majority gets what it deserves.

I'm not necessarily saying that they shouldn't have been taxed, rather, at least subsidized, such as the government does to other industries. I'm not going to go into any politics on this one, as this thread isn't the place for it, though I'd happily take it in an IM/PM.

[Travis Hoffman]

I think it's a pretty safe bet that most of y'uns don't possess anywhere near the necessary amount of factual information you need to pursue cogent arguments regarding Delphi's financial losses over the past few years, so I propose you all calm down and not waste valuable time and energy needlessly and carelessly debating this topic.

<-- Means I am not upset. Just be cool!

Regarding the restructuring announced today, Koko Ed is right - it's wayyyy too early to speculate on the future of any of the Delphi teams or of any other support Delphi provides to FIRST. In fact, our new CEO (who I happen to respect a great deal) has explicitly asked us not to guess about anything that might happen as a result of this filing, especially in public media forums. I think that course of action is very wise, and I intend to follow it.

I can tell you for a fact that Team 48 will compete in 2006 no matter what. I'll leave it up to Andy Baker, Mike Aubry, and the other Delphi mentors to make any statements regarding their own teams' status for next season, but looking at the registered team lists for all the regional events, I see Delphi teams all over the place. We didn't go anywhere - we're all still here, and we're a resilient bunch. I'm also pretty dang certain ChiefDelphi won't be changing it's name any time soon.

While it would be very unfortunate if any of the Delphi FIRST teams were hurt by this Chapter 11 restructuring, if there was any cause for concern at all, I hope it would be primarily directed toward the well-being of the many Delphi mentors, their families, and their coworkers.

For now, I encourage everyone to use discretion when posting to this thread. Please don't speculate. Remain patient. I'm sure the Delphi mentors who are active on ChiefDelphi will update the community with relevant factual information as soon as it is permissible and prudent to do so. Just remember, Chapter 11 isn't a sign that a corporation is dead; on the contrary, it is a sign that the corporation is very much willing to do whatever it takes to transform itself and improve amid the most difficult of business conditions. Let's all just go about our business as usual and we'll revisit this a bit later down the road.

[Gadget470]

Originally Posted by Adam Richards

This was actually starting to be noticed around Q4 2004 when they had a nice 4 billion dollar income tax cost incurred (thank you government ).

Should be:

(Thank you poor people who wished to have income taxes for the rich to provide you with government jobs and then wanted further government expansion once the rich found ways to shelter their money, which in turn led to income taxes for everyone )

Just thought I'd point that out. It's not the government's fault for taxing, it's the people's willingness to be taxed.

[Billfred]

On the bright side, nobody's dead in the water yet.

And even if Delphi were to cut funding to its teams, it's still not the end of the world. They happen to sponsor some darn good teams in FIRST, who I'm willing to bet are capable of getting on the grind and raising the money they need. (Granted, it might be awkward to start calling ChiefDelphi something else, but stranger things have happened.)

If all else fails, of course, the teams can always move to Kansas.

[Tristan Lall]

Originally Posted by Gadget470

Should be:

(Thank you poor people who wished to have income taxes for the rich to provide you with government jobs and then wanted further government expansion once the rich found ways to shelter their money, which in turn led to income taxes for everyone )

Just thought I'd point that out. It's not the government's fault for taxing, it's the people's willingness to be taxed.

Are you seriously attributing Delphi's bankruptcy to the actions and whims of the poor of America?

Maybe you should clarify your position, because right now it sounds rather untenable.

[Karthik]

Moderators Note:

Let's keep this discussion to Delphi's bankruptcy, and it's effect on FIRST. Discussion of the roots, merits and demerits of taxation laws in America (not directly related to the Delphi situation) should be held in a new thread in the Chit-Chat forum.

[Joe Matt]

So, what about scholarships? Will they cut those?

[Rickertsen2]

this thread rapidly detioriated my original intent.

[Conor Ryan]

This can be bad for first as a whole not only as for the Delphi sponsored teams, but FIRST as a whole. Delphi is a founding sponsor of FIRST and dedicates tens of thousands of dollars to get the competition of the ground each year. So it should be intresting what happens now.

Heres an older thread on Speculation that this would occur it has some intresting discussion too

[Collmandoman]

Will they shutdown the forum?!?

[Rich Kressly]

Alright. I thought Travis made things crystal clear for people, but perhaps I should clarify.

1. Your ONLY concern right now should be for PEOPLE. Teams, forums, and how this may or may not affect the outside world are secondary.

2. Speculation on what happens to others at BEST belongs in the rumor mill, but in this case, doesn't belong at ALL.

3. This announcement was released yesterday. How on earth could anyone know anything yet, especially when the CEO states that nothing will change right away and that all future changes will be handled in an orderly manner?

4. If there is something for you to learn, you will learn it directly from appropriate sources. Be PATIENT. You may hear nothing at all for months, maybe longer.

5. Please refrain from starting your thoughts with "I bet..." or "I wonder if..." followed by some doomsday scenario. It's thinking like that that sent thousands running to the bank for their money in 1929.

If you've ever come upon two people having a conversation and found the people were talking about you, I'm sure it was at least uncomfortable for you. I consider the people that are potentially affected my friends (notice I use the word "potentially" because I have no clue about any of the inside details, nor will I ask anyone).

Maybe I'm just being grumpy, but I find this kind of rumor-mongering to be distasteful. Every time I face adversity and uncertainty in my life (yes, we all get our turn to go through such things), I find compassionate people, not people who pick at open wounds.

When I think of this announcement I see the faces of my friends and, in some cases, the faces of their children. I wish my friends and their families well during an uncertain time and I offer my support.

Now, if you want to talk and speculate further, BET on this. You will receive a pm from me, asking you to take your conversation to a private arena. I know society in general loves this kind of thing. I also know that FIRST attempts to improve upon and even change the culture for the better. Everyone here is capable of rising above the trappings of popular culture and this situation is no different.

Namaste...

[UlTiMaTeP]

Originally Posted by Adam Richards

This was actually starting to be noticed around Q4 2004 when they had a nice 4 billion dollar income tax cost incurred (thank you government ). They were starting to lose their footing back in Q3, where they incurred losses of $113million, but the income tax really just decimated them. They lost a further $726million in the Q1 and Q2 of this year, making the likelihood of them being able to keep themselves afloat at their current rate very difficult to say the least.

This is truly going to affect the FIRST community in a very bad way in the next few years, and we can only hope that either the affected teams are kept on the budget or that they are able to find sponsors for the 2007 or 2008 season, depending on if/when the cut occurs.

(Data taken from Hoovers.com)

You have been flamed enough for this, but every corp, unless its a chapter S, pays federal and state income tax, its the reason you have roads, and a High School.