Girls are still undermined?

[Jaine Perotti]

I think that the most widespread gender-based problem lies in sparking the interest of more young women in science and technology, not so much in gender-based discrimination. I believe that the reason there is a disproportionately low number of females involved in the areas of science and engineering is the fact that girls are often underexposed to the possibility of a career in those fields. The problem is not so much that girls are being discriminated against, but rather that girls are not receiving enough encouragement from the onset.

I don't believe that sexism on FIRST teams is a huge problem. There are many, many teams where girls are welcome and encouraged to participate. Why then, are there so few females in FIRST?

The real issue is that girls are usually encouraged by society to go into the arts and humanities, rather than into science or technology. They aren't encouraged to go into science or engineering in the same way that boys are - not because society is discriminatory, but because our culture has only relatively recently accepted the idea of women pursuing scientific careers. Society isn't "used to" the idea of women in science and technology, and therefore it isn't "expected". Many girls never really consider careers in engineering because their cultural experience never planted the thought in their minds.

I once asked one of my female students at my summer RoboCamp for Girls session why she had never considered joining the school's FLL team. She told me, "I was afraid it would be ruled by the boys." I have observed that oftentimes, girls in that age group (9-14) are often more reserved and reticent than boys in the same age group. Their ideas are less likely to be heard in a noisy group of boisterous boys, and they are less comfortable sharing them. All too often, the girls have had some sort of a bad experience in school trying to work with a group of boys, and they were shut out. Boys at that age are often bossier than the girls, and can be rougher and pushier.

These social characteristics of this particular age group - when left unchecked - are often what prevents young girls from feeling comfortable embarking upon a new experience that is mostly male dominated. No one discriminates against them or discourages them purposely. Rather, the girls are uncomfortable from the onset, due to social environmental factors. This mindset is learned in their preteen years, and consequently makes many girls rule out robotics in their teen years.

However, it is possible to foster a group dynamic that allows girls to feel more comfortable working in a male dominated activity. Maintaining a team that is well structured and organized prevents members from feeling overwhelmed by chaos (why is it that chaos is often present where there are boys? ). Making clear rules about allowing everyone to share their ideas is very important. Define your behavioral expectations to the kids clearly - make sure that an atmosphere of respect is highly palpable. This allows everyone to feel comfortable working with each other, and sharing their opinions. By keeping a well-run team, you are ensuring that all of the students (including the girls) have a positive experience.

But how does society in general help more girls become interested in science and technology?

I firmly believe that all-girls programs and camps are a great way to introduce pre-teen and teen girls to robotics. I ran two RoboCamp for Girls sessions this summer, and they were a great success. For the first time ever, my school district has female members on it's two FLL teams. Previously, there were none. Because the girls didn't have to worry about being pushed around by boys, they felt comfortable embarking upon a new learning experience. They were able to acquire the knowledge and skills that made them feel less intimidated to join the FLL team. They felt (and were) of equal competence to the boys who were on the team, and they felt comfortable sharing their opinions.

The other reason why girls felt comfortable in the all-girls program is that they could stick with their friends. Girls at that age seem to be more confident about trying new things when they have a friend at their side. This is true for my robotics team also - almost all of the girls on my team have joined because a friend was already on the team.

The bottom line is this:

More girls need to be directly encouraged to become interested in science and technology. More programs targeted specifically at girls need to be put in place. Sexism is not the root of this problem, as it was in the past. Even though most sexism is gone, society still has not recovered from it's effects - namely, that girls are not expected to go into science and technology the way that boys are. By directly encouraging girls, we can hopefully initiate a gradual change in society's perceptions surrounding careers and gender.

-- Jaine

[sciguy125]

Originally Posted by BurningQuestion

I think that the most widespread gender-based problem lies in sparking the interest of more young women in science and technology, not so much in gender-based discrimination.

I brought this up before but nobody took up the discussion. (You can ignore my closing comments there.)

This gender bias seems to be more prominant in engineering than science, but I haven't been able to figure out why.

[nehalita]

Just a thought:
After reading these comments, many of which I agree with, I'm making a hypothesis.

There is confidence in numbers.
Boys see other boys doing mechanical work so they feel more invited to do the same.
If there are girls also doing mechanical work, the next girl might feel encouraged, but if there are only boys working on the robot, then the girl would have to break the "invisible barrier". It may be, in fact, that there is no barrier, but to a girl who sees only boys working or designing the robot, they might have a preconditioned barrier of their own to cross.

This could be with anything. What if only girls did the electrical work and always do? I'm sure some boys might hesitate and do something else instead.

Just throwing this out there....

[Tom Bottiglieri]

Originally Posted by nehalita

Just a thought:
After reading these comments, many of which I agree with, I'm making a hypothesis.

There is confidence in numbers.
Boys see other boys doing mechanical work so they feel more invited to do the same.
If there are girls also doing mechanical work, the next girl might feel encouraged, but if there are only boys working on the robot, then the girl would have to break the "invisible barrier". It may be, in fact, that there is no barrier, but to a girl who sees only boys working or designing the robot, they might have a preconditioned barrier of their own to cross.

This could be with anything. What if only girls did the electrical work and always do? I'm sure some boys might hesitate and do something else instead.

Just throwing this out there....

You should try gathering some statistical data on this problem.

Come up with some type of questionnaire, or a poll asking about girl's interest and participation in science and technology. You can distribute it to your school to come up with some small scale results. If you like the idea, I do recommend making a Chief Delphi white paper out of this, and trying to get as many people as possible involved in the distribution of this poll.

I think it would be pretty neat to get something big like that going, because you would have some solid numbers to work off of. You would also be able to see how girl's perspective on engineering varies throughout different regions of the country, and try to draw some conclusions off of that.

What will this do to help the problem? No idea.. the balls in your court for that one. I just think doing something like this would be a worthwhile undertaking.

[KenWittlief]

It would be interesting to check the statistics: what percent of freshman enrolled at engineering universities this year, female & male? It would be a good indication of where we are, and by looking at past years, what is the trend?

One of the great dis-services that happened in the 70s and the 80s was confusing "equal" with "same".

Women and men should absolutely have equal rights, equal opportunities, equal encouragement and at the same time we need to understand and acknowledge the genuine differences in the way that men and women think, feel and interact with the world.

Some of those differences are a result of our culture, and some are due to the way our brains are wired. If you ignore the differences you are setting yourself up for frustration, grief, and in some cases failure.

Please dont take my comments the wrong way. Women can be excellent engineers, and men can be excellent nurses, but men and women are clearly drawn towards some occupations and shy away from others.

If we think that half of all engineers should be women by a certain date in the future, it would be best to first stop and understand why you think that is true?

[Cory]

Originally Posted by KenWittlief

It would be interesting to check the statistics: what percent of freshman enrolled at engineering universities this year, female & male?

It's pretty much entirely disproportional. I know engineering schools like RIT/WPI/etc that are well known in FIRST all have extremely small female populations.

I think the gap is very slowly closing, but it's going to be a long long time until it reaches 50/50 or 60/40, or whatever it is that most colleges are at.

[KenWittlief]

my point is: is it reasonable to expect the ratio to be 50:50?

If you look at the present situation, and from your perspective you think it should be 50:50, and that makes you upset or angry, or it pushes you work towards making it 50:50, are you looking at things realistically?

Im only raising the question. What should the ratio be?

[Cory]

Originally Posted by KenWittlief

my point is: is it reasonable to expect the ratio to be 50:50?

If you look at the present situation, and from your perspective you think it should be 50:50, and that makes you upset or angry, or it pushes you work towards making it 50:50, are you looking at things realistically?

Im only raising the question. What should the ratio be?

I have no idea what it should be. I was only comparing to non engineering focused colleges, where the ratio is much closer to 50:50 or even skewed in favor of women.

[dubious elise]

Originally Posted by KenWittlief

my point is: is it reasonable to expect the ratio to be 50:50?

If you look at the present situation, and from your perspective you think it should be 50:50, and that makes you upset or angry, or it pushes you work towards making it 50:50, are you looking at things realistically?

Im only raising the question. What should the ratio be?

I say no ratio. Those that are interested should pursue their desires, rather than being handed a special incentive to make things "equal" when their skill levels may not be as high as the next applicant or participant.

But that is off topic entirely. My apologies.

On our team, we have one female mentor that always encourages the girls, especially the new ones, to listen carefully to the discussions and instructions, then grab the boys' tools and push them out of the way to show that they can do it too. Its a bit of a rough theory, but it works

I've never particularly had a firm spot on our team. My first year was largely animation, logo design, and, during competition season, photographing, scouting, and following Ricky. Last year, I was the human player, led some of the team meetings, painted the frame, and helped out with fundrasing and publicity as much as I was able. Both years, I picked up fairly random skills, one day I would work with 3DS Max, the next I would be welding, or soldering, or machining gearboxes, or assembling gearboxes, or using the plasma cutter, or organizing the nuts/bolts drawers.

This year, I've been working with our new FLL team and I have noticed an odd thing. Whenever the 7 boys get very involved in one aspect of the game, the 3 girls automatically withdraw to working on their research projects. The other two girls that mentor with me can't seem to get the younger girls to be quite so involved in the building process as they were for the first 2-3 weeks.

Maybe it is the lack of structure, girls want to work from a plan, guys want to freehand a project and see where it goes...I don't really have a concrete answer. What I can say is that the more passionate a girl is about a certain aspect of the team (and yes, this holds true for guys as well), the more respect she will gain from her peers and the more opportunities she will have within the team. Don't withdraw. Don't hold back. FIRST is a no-holds-barred opportunity. It is up to the students to make the most of their magnificent chance.

I would say that most of the girls at my school are either to embarssed to join or just think its wierd for girls to be in robotics.I have tried to get my friends that are girls to join and i just got laughed at and the pictures in the trash can in little pieces. i figured it was stupid that they did that but oh well.

[DanaRocks]

it does not happen on my team i am a girl and i am the captian of the team and the head mechanical person