2006 game hints?

[Rickertsen2]

I think yall are over-analyzing Dave's recent posts. I don't think they have ANYTHING to do with the game. In any case,

I WANT MY HINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I WANT MY HINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I WANT MY HINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I WANT MY HINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I WANT MY HINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I WANT MY HINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

About what time is it usually given out? I think i remember viewing CD threads about it last year on my grandmother's computer which probably indicates around thanksgiving.

[Bharat Nain]

Originally Posted by Rickertsen2

I think yall are over-analyzing Dave's recent posts. I don't think they have ANYTHING to do with the game. In any case,

I WANT MY HINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I WANT MY HINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I WANT MY HINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I WANT MY HINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I WANT MY HINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I WANT MY HINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I shall second that
I WANT MY HINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I WANT MY HINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I WANT MY HINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I WANT MY HINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I WANT MY HINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I WANT MY HINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mike]

A little birdy told me that FIRST is testing two minute autonomous modes right this very moment. This makes sense, seeing how FIRST is putting more and more emphasis on a stronger autonomous mode.

As far as a programming GUI is concerned, if you want to use it: go ahead. It's the same as the scripting language that was provided this year. Sure, it makes some things easier, but I know it can't be nearly as powerful as a smart programmer. A program will never replace good old fashioned hand coding.

[Pat Fairbank]

Originally Posted by Rickertsen2

I WANT MY HINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

About what time is it usually given out? I think i remember viewing CD threads about it last year on my grandmother's computer which probably indicates around thanksgiving.

Actually, it's not usually given out 'till around New Year's...
I guess we'll just have to be patient...

[JamesBrown]

I am sure many of you will be disappointed by the performance of this type of programming software, it wont let you use the FRC controller to its fullest extent.

As for two minute autonomous modes, I don't think first will go there soon, I believe that part of FIRST is te interaction between people, robots, as well as people and their robots. A 2 minute autonomous would take away from this interaction, unless of course they made matches much longer which would lead to an entire redesign of the competition structure. This seems like far to drastic of a step right now.

How ever a fully autonomous match would be alot of fun and a huge challange perhapse it would be better offered as a sub competiton or even as an event at off season competitions. With the disappointing performances of many teams this year in auton i don't see FIRST immersing us to that extent just yet.

[Rickertsen2]

Originally Posted by Pat Fairbank

Actually, it's not usually given out 'till around New Year's...
I guess we'll just have to be patient...

I suppose i would have been at my grandmother's house then too

[Winged Globe]

Originally Posted by JamesBrown

As for two minute autonomous modes, I don't think first will go there soon, I believe that part of FIRST is te interaction between people, robots, as well as people and their robots. A 2 minute autonomous would take away from this interaction, unless of course they made matches much longer which would lead to an entire redesign of the competition structure. This seems like far to drastic of a step right now.

What's to stop them from doing a Vex-style parallel autonomous and human-controlled matches, or where autonomous scoring is averaged with human-controlled scoring in the same match? The Vex setup seems to be FIRST's way of saying "PROGRAM A %$#@! AUTONOMOUS MODE ALREADY!" The December Vex competition may be a guinea pig of such a scoring system. I wouldn't be surprised if a semi-decent autonomous suddenly becomes a true linchpin in FRC due to how scores will be calculated. Especially if FRC gets a graphical programming interface like Vex and FLL (no more excuses, for real?).

[Petey]

Originally Posted by JamesBrown

How ever a fully autonomous match would be alot of fun and a huge challange perhapse it would be better offered as a sub competiton or even as an event at off season competitions. With the disappointing performances of many teams this year in auton i don't see FIRST immersing us to that extent just yet.

Please.

A fully autonomous match, while certainly a testament to a team's technological dexterity, would be incredibly boring.

We need more human player interaction.

--Petey

[Rickertsen2]

I really hope that FIRST doesn't include the afore-linked programming GUI in the kit. It doesn't teach anybody any real world skills whatsoever. I would be really disappointed.

[Bharat Nain]

Originally Posted by Rickertsen2

I really hope that FIRST doesn't include the afore-linked programming GUI in the kit. It doesn't teach anybody any real world skills whatsoever. I would be really disappointed.

I would be disappointed too because I believe hard core coding is the way to go. On the other hand, at every regional I help out atleast 4 other teams program their robot. So I guess such software would be gold to them and it would help raise the level of competition on the field. A robot is not complete if it is not programmed well.

[phrontist]

Originally Posted by Petey

Man, this is going to piss off so many of the hard core command line people. Egalitarian code! What nonsense!

Hello, I'm from the Hard Core Command Line People Anti-Defamation League!

This is all just a big misunderstanding Mr. Petey. You see, we have no problem whatsoever with the unwashed masses playing with their silly GUIs, we just want to make sure no one talks of getting rid of our precious direct-access compilers.

Oh, and this is not "hardcore" by any stretch of the imagination. FRC programming is rarely low-level enough that you have to truly understand the hardware, nor is it abstract enough that you're working on a massive system with hundreds of unit-tests between you and a final product.

This post was written in vi and uploaded via a TCP/IP stack I whipped up on the fly by waving magnets around my harddrive with amazing precision. The vi part was much harder.

[phrontist]

Oh, and it's not a robot unless it's autonomus. It's a large electro-mechanical contraption. Or an oversized RC car. Not a robot. Where do you draw the line of what constitutes "robothood" if you start including human controlled creations?

[Petey]

Originally Posted by phrontist

Hello, I'm from the Hard Core Command Line People Anti-Defamation League!

This is all just a big misunderstanding Mr. Petey. You see, we have no problem whatsoever with the unwashed masses playing with their silly GUIs, we just want to make sure no one talks of getting rid of our precious direct-access compilers.

*grins*

Dude, I worked at an ISP. It's not like I have a problem with command liners. I mean, I hate vi, but what non-sadist doesn't?

I agree.

Oh, and this is not "hardcore" by any stretch of the imagination. FRC programming is rarely low-level enough that you have to truly understand the hardware, nor is it abstract enough that you're working on a massive system with hundreds of unit-tests between you and a final product.

Ok.

This post was written in vi and uploaded via a TCP/IP stack I whipped up on the fly by waving magnets around my harddrive with amazing precision. The vi part was much harder.

AAAARGH VI $@#$@#$@#$@#.

What is funny is that I didn't read this before I made my vi taunt above.

I marvel at your patience.

--Petey

[Winged Globe]

Originally Posted by Mike

It's the same as the scripting language that was provided this year.

Originally Posted by Rickertsen2

I really hope that FIRST doesn't include the afore-linked programming GUI in the kit. It doesn't teach anybody any real world skills whatsoever. I would be really disappointed.

Wait... what?? Looking at the example for FRC controllers, it just looks like all the code thrown into a flow-chart interface (a graphical tool used in real computer science classes I've seen to teach the core logic/reasoning/organizing ANYONE needs in order to program). This isn't just script code like "turn left for blah seconds"--there seems to be a direct correlation between what the flow-chart displays and what the actual code will be (if count Bit 7 ON yes--> SET rc_dig_out16 ON, etc. etc.). It looks like you can comment directly into the flow-chart boxes to describe what is going on, too.

This means that the only difference between the flow-chart and actual code may be purely formating in nature, in which case, how does this have no correlation to the real world? Heck, it doesn't even look like pseudo-code; you have to use real variable names, real subroutine names, real function calls! And once a new programmer feels comfortable with the logic, *CLICK* and they see the real code! And it looks almost exactly like what they did with the flow-chart! "Wow! Maybe this programming stuff isn't so bad! I can do this..."

I can understand the nerd attachment to CLI's and aversion of all things graphical, but if the examples show the actual product delivered (and if FIRST/Kevin Watson brings the scripts back in addition to this interface, by all means, but that isn't this specific program), this is the most code-like graphical interface I've seen. I'm almost afraid that some newbie programmers will still be puzzled by it, as it isn't as graphical and perhaps as intuitive as Lego's interface or even Robolab. I really don't see what the big pout is all about. This seems to head in the right direction to get new programmers into the fold, while allowing novice programmers to transition and advanced programmers to keep hacking at their leisure.

[Petey]

Exactly.

The only people who I know who are really dismayed are some people who are hard-core programmers who are pouting that now n00bs will be able to do their stuff too.

However, this leaves room for the hardcore hackers to build an easy base and then go on from there, right?

And it *should* help get n00bs into the program, which is always good, especially for rookie teams.

--Petey