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Unread 30-10-2005, 12:44
Freddy Schurr Freddy Schurr is offline
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FIRST: COLLEGE ?

Would it be cool if they had a college FIRST competition? Who agrees with me? I mean they have FLL,FIRST Robotics, and now Vex. So what about something for our age group.
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Unread 30-10-2005, 13:19
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Re: FIRST: COLLEGE ?

Well, my family got into a big discussion about this awhile back, and my dad and I agreed that with an emphasis on starting new teams, one isn't necessary. Also, the primary goal is to get kids into science and technology fields, and you start your fields in college where you start to see what engineering, science, and technology is really like. I think a college FIRST wouldn't really accomplish anything that FIRST wants to accomplish and it FIRST would enter into the "purely for entertainment" sector I think they want to avoid.
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Unread 30-10-2005, 13:23
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Re: FIRST: COLLEGE ?

Freddy,

I think that one of the best parts of FIRST is that it gives the college kids a different chance, a chance to mentor. Looking at what I know about you, it would appear that you are approaching your first build season as a mentor. Let me tell you, it's a heck of a ride. Yes, the high school part as students is fun, but do you know what's even better? Getting to mentor the kids. It's pretty unlikely that there will be a college FIRST competition, college kids just don't tend to be able to commit that much over the course of 6 weeks. You're going to have an exam, a paper, etc. and you're just not going to be able to dedicate the kind of time this kind of competition requires. Even when it comes to college mentors, school always comes first and whenever possible, college mentors should be doubled up so that when something comes up (and it always does), you've got a backup. Other college groups work because there is not such a great commitment over a short series of time like in FIRST. While it would be pretty fun, I think that you'll see this build season that mentoring is a heck of a lot of fun too. (except when the kids pretend to cut their fingers off to see your reaction )
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Unread 30-10-2005, 14:41
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Re: FIRST: COLLEGE ?

The DARPA Grand Challenge was probably one of the closest things. I'd say there are a lot of college robotic competitions out there, they are just in a different format than FIRST.
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Unread 30-10-2005, 15:48
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Re: FIRST: COLLEGE ?

No.

The point of FIRST is to inspire kids to make a career out of science and technology.

That's accomplished in high school. By college, it's probably too late.

At any rate, college students are a valuable tool for helping to inspire the high school kids.

If there was a college competition, it would severely deplete the number of college mentors we have out there. After graduating from college, they'd probably be more likely to work with a college team as well, further messing up the balance.
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Unread 30-10-2005, 16:02
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Re: FIRST: COLLEGE ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory
By college, it's probably too late.
Seconded.

I started Elementary Education, and switched to Business (in practice the second semester of my freshman year, on paper at the start of this one). A while back this semester, I thought about switching again to mechanical engineering. And if I did, I would have wasted a full year of college. Much as everyone says to stay in college as long as you can and enjoy it and so on, I'm getting done in four years, darnit!

(My advice to all the high schoolers who may be reading this thread: when looking at colleges, look to see what credits you can apply to other majors at the same school. If engineering/business/basketweaving isn't what you thought it would be, you'll be glad you can get out without losing too much ground.)
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Unread 30-10-2005, 16:13
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Re: FIRST: COLLEGE ?

I'd bet there are more college students (with engineering or technical majors too) than you know who have never drilled a hole or who have never picked up a screwdriver or never written a program.

Remember, not all the highschool students out there get to experience FIRST (or anything remotely similar to it) and a lot of times they get stuck in their books in college. And when they finish their education, all they have is pile of books, and a mind full of formulas, and no idea what to do with them.

I'm all for it.
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Unread 30-10-2005, 16:30
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Re: FIRST: COLLEGE ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanddrag
I'd bet there are more college students (with engineering or technical majors too) than you know who have never drilled a hole or who have never picked up a screwdriver or never written a program.

Remember, not all the highschool students out there get to experience FIRST (or anything remotely similar to it) and a lot of times they get stuck in their books in college. And when they finish their education, all they have is pile of books, and a mind full of formulas, and no idea what to do with them.

I'm all for it.
Why pull mentors away from high school kids, who haven't made their career choices yet, to allow college kids (who already made their career decision) to drive robots on the field?

That's all that'd be accomplished. You might inspire a few business majors to become ME's or EE's, but it will be a disproportionally small number. With the way college is now, people are looking to get out as quickly as possible. Very very few people will be willing to sacrifice over a year of coursework for a liberal arts/business/what have you degree to switch over and work on an engineering degree. It just doesn't make sense, particularly in economic terms, and wages lost by not being in the workforce when you have to makeup that year.

The majority of the people such a competition would attract are a) kids who did FIRST in high school, or engineers at the college in question. Either way, both of these groups have already seen the message of FIRST. The only thing this would do for them is allow them to compete on the playing field, and let them have fun.

It's not worth it to entice current college mentors away from high school kids, where they can actually affect a kid's career choice, and make a difference.

$0.02
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Unread 30-10-2005, 18:02
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Re: FIRST: COLLEGE ?

Adding a large number of college teams would cause sponsor and venue outsourcing, and more importantly mentor outsourcing.

Speaking from the point of view of a high school student, I look up to my college-aged advisors. It's easier for me to work with a college-aged advisor than to work with an adult I don't know, and I look up to these college students because they offer advice and information that applies to me more than the advice from any other age group.

While I agree with Sanddrag that many college students need more technical experience, I'll confess that I'd be sad to see these students go. The mentors on our team offered technical training for all new advisors, regardless of their experience in FIRST. Every new technical advisor had similar training, and ended up on the same level of technical knowledge.

There are other robotics programs, but let's keep FIRST student participatino below college age. We love you college kids.
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Unread 30-10-2005, 18:35
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Re: FIRST: COLLEGE ?

Also, just because a college student has never participated in FIRST doesn't mean he or she can't get involved on a team now and be a good mentor. People of that type, like rookies to teams, always have something different and new to offer because they've never been through a build season or seen a competition.
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Unread 30-10-2005, 23:34
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Re: FIRST: COLLEGE ?

Plus there are already many FIRST like college competitions. There are things like Solar Car, Mini-Baja, Concrete Canoe, RoboCup, DARPA, etc. All of these probably dont have the excitement and fanfare of FIRST, but they are all short term engineering based problems. These are great programs for college students who want to get their hands dirty and solve a real world engineering problem.

And I have to agree, that the mission of FIRST is to inspire high school kids to pursue careers in science & technology. I also have to agree, inspiration does not usually come at the college age.

And while FIRST is a lot of fun as a high school student, college is a time to grow up, to learn to lead, and to learn to mentor in the FIRST community.
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Unread 09-11-2005, 01:26
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Re: FIRST: COLLEGE ?

Well, I think it sounds like an awesome idea. But I can see where everyone else is coming from. Why can't there be a college team that also mentors a FIRST team? And I think it would be a great way for college students to start networking. I got an awesome internship in high school through FIRST. I know that I had an amazing time in FIRST but I didn't get to do everything that I wanted to and didn't get learn everything about certain things that I wanted to learn more about. And I sit in my math and physics class in college and I wonder "what am I ever going to use this stuff for?" and I think something like FIRST COLLEGE would allow students to apply all this knowledge and see if we really do want to be in engineering. I dunno, I don't think that something like this goes against what FIRST is trying to promote, but maybe that's just me.
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Unread 09-11-2005, 10:40
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Re: FIRST: COLLEGE ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory
Why pull mentors away from high school kids, who haven't made their career choices yet, to allow college kids (who already made their career decision) to drive robots on the field?
Because I want to, darn it!

Actually, mentor matches are awesome, in my opinion. Lets the adults have a chance to play with the toys they helped create. I got my chance this year at the Capital Clash, and it was hella fun. Now I just need to move home and help them build a mobility system that works.

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Unread 09-11-2005, 15:45
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Re: FIRST: COLLEGE ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wetzel
Because I want to, darn it!
That's reason enough for me. FIRST is fun to be involved in as an active participant. Yes I have moved on from HS, but yes I still want to build the robot, and I still want to drive, and I still want to be a human player, and do everything that the HS students do. But I can't, and that's why we need a College FIRST, not because we need it, but because we want it.
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Unread 09-11-2005, 17:05
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Re: FIRST: COLLEGE ?

all the college level competitions that exist now are way more interesting and challenging than anything you ever did in FIRST

and if you find you have free time on your hands in college, do what DK did - start your own company

FIRST was only a taste to get you interested. If you are attending an engineering university, you need to hurry up and get through the 7 stages of grieving over the loss of your HS years, and look ahead to your future.
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