This year we need instant replay

[KenWittlief]

this year, sit up in the stands, in the top row, and zoom a Hi8 camera so it covers the whole field.

Record several matches, then watch them carefully and see what you can observe on the video.

Hi8 has a resolution of about 500 x 480 pixels. The playfield is what? 60 feet long? thats 720 inches. So your whole-field video has a resolution of about 1.5" - so you will be able to discern objects about 3" and larger.

That means you cant see hands, or robot arms, or the lines on the floor clearly.

You would need a high defintion camera recording system, like 1024p HD TV, and you would need 2 or 3 to cover all sides of the field + the human players. It gets expensive really fast.

Professional sports: they use camera operators to follow the play action, and they zoom in on whoever has the ball, and the major players in several zones on the field.

Who has the ball in a FIRST match? how many cameras would it take to track 4 or 6 robots on the field, plus all the human players, plus the drive teams and coaches to make sure they dont break any rules?

[Bill Moore]

Instant Replay??? AAAAAAUUUUUGGGGGHHHHHH!!!

When are people going to understand that the competitions are not the "end" that FIRST is trying to achieve? If they were, FIRST would be a "for profit" corporation and run them like a business, just like any other sports league.

The competitions are only a means to an end. That "end" being to inspire students and give them an opportunity to participate in a fun experience, that encourages them to consider science and technology as career choices.

Who wins is immaterial, as long as all go through the process and are exposed to the goals of FIRST.

Two or three years from now, the metal on a ribbon will be collecting dust; but, the memory of when you challenged yourself to produce more than you thought you were capable of doing will be a great source of personal pride and encouragement.

[eiii]

Originally Posted by Bill Moore

Instant Replay??? AAAAAAUUUUUGGGGGHHHHHH!!!
When are people going to understand that the competitions are not the "end" that FIRST is trying to achieve? If they were, FIRST would be a "for profit" corporation and run them like a business, just like any other sports league.

That's true, but it doesn't feel good to be cheated out of anything, no matter how small.

Originally Posted by Steve W

1 - It costs MONEY to put up a camera(s)

Everything costs money.

2 - More than a camera is involved, remote pan equipment, monitor, computer,etc

As people have said before, just hanging a camera above the feild so you could see generally what's going on would be good.

6 - FIRST is not about winning a match

But as I said above, it's not fun to be cheated out of anything.

8 - Even you have said that replay would not catch everything

You don't have to catch everything; just the general movement of the robots.

9 - Nothing is fair

That's no reason not to try to make it fair.

[artdutra04]

Originally Posted by eiii

That's true, but it doesn't feel good to be cheated out of anything, no matter how small.

Everything costs money.
As people have said before, just hanging a camera above the feild so you could see generally what's going on would be good.

But as I said above, it's not fun to be cheated out of anything.
You don't have to catch everything; just the general movement of the robots.
That's no reason not to try to make it fair.

This topic has recently been debated ad nausem, with the general concensus being that instant reply doesn't really have any place at FIRST competitions. Steve hit the nail on the head for all the points. Yes, I know how sometimes you feel cheated by a call, and you might lose a match or two. But just as often, you may actually benefit from a bad call. The refs are just volunteers. FIRST is not about robots or end results. FIRST is about the process, about inspiring teens to careers in science, technology, and engineering. Who wins or loses will not really matter in twenty years. But the inspiration of the students to become engineers will. As it has been said plenty of time before,

It's just a game.

[Billfred]

Originally Posted by artdutra04

It's just a game.

Repeated for emphasis.

Back when I raced remote-controlled cars, there were times when people would gripe and complain about bad calls/turn marshalling/etc. Someone came up with the reminder that we were "racing toys for bowling trophies." And whenever I'd get annoyed about something during a race, I'd remember that line.

Without putting down the hard work we put into our robots, we are still on the field competing for bowling trophies. If getting that piece of shiny acrylic is your main goal, you may want to pause and examine why you're competing.

Have fun, play hard, get inspired, and if you get one of those aforementioned bowling trophies, all the better.

(Side note: Yes, FIRST's trophies are nicer than bowling trophies. You know what I mean.)

[KenWittlief]

If you goto a competition

and you leave feeling your team was cheated in any way

then someone has seriously mis-led you concerning what FIRST is all about

and all the rule clarifications and instant replay cameras will only push you further down a mis-guided path.

Here is sportsmanship: whatever the head ref says, that is the call, that is the end. We all know we will get bad calls, thats part of the game.

The rest is up to you.

How you respond when things dont go your way is the best indication of your character and personality.

But just to make everyone happy (Ive made this offer many times before): if you feel your team was cheated out of a trophy or award, and you cant get over it, send me a PM, and I will make a trophy for you.

Its about 50¢ worth the plastic, and they take about 10 minutes to fabricate :^)