2006 game hints?

[Lee]

Batons are used in track events in a relay race. How about a PVC pipe with end caps that has to be transferred from robot to robot autonomously. Or maybe the "goal" is the opponents robot. Each robot would have a basket in which the opponent tries to place a baton. Could the batons start on the floor as a pile of "pixie stix?" How hard would it be to pick a 2" PVC pipe from the floor?

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by Lee

How hard would it be to pick a 2" PVC pipe from the floor?

I can imagine many ways to do it. If it turns out to be part of a FRC game, you can bet some teams will make it look easy, and I predict at least one will come up with something that makes everyone else wish they had thought of it.

[billbo911]

Originally Posted by nukemknight

..... but maybe he could mean a blizzard: the driver's vision will be blocked but they will have someone else (like the human player at the corner of the field this year) to tell them where to go....

Let's consider a couple more combinations of hints.
When you mentioned the driver's vision being limited or blocked, I immediatly thought about the appearent push that seems to be in place to have the CMU Cameras back in place this year. If this is true, and picking up "batons" were included, then it would make sense that the game could actually allow the use of the camera to aid the drivers vision during a portion, if not all of the match to guide them to the game objects, like a baton.


During autonomous mode, limiting the robot to ONLY use the camera as a sensor is another possibility. After all, Dave's mentioning of rules that "restrict" the use of certain items really only points to a rule that restricts the use of certain item, not what that item was. Here is the quote:

Originally Posted by dlavery

..... For example, what about a rule that says "no threaded fasteners of any type are permitted on the robot."* If it were up to me, I would add a rule like that. Oh, wait, it is...

-dave

Notice the "like", Dave didn't say "No threaded fasteners", but he did say a rule "like" that.

[EricH]

More hint removal/analysis.

Removal: hovercraft. Building a FIRST robot to act like a hovercraft and still pass inspection would be very difficult.

Analysis: English Channel. Difficult to cross without special equipment (boat, hovercraft, tunnel. We've already ruled out boat & hovercraft, and tunnel is impractical.) Probably going to be different surfaces, one much more difficult than the rest and placed in the middle of the field.

Analysis: fox in the henhouse. What happens when a fox gets into the henhouse? The chickens (obviously not Thunderchickens) panic. Two explanations: either that's all of us at some point during the season (hint release and kickoff come to mind) or something on the field will scatter if a robot hits an area. Remember the ball dump in '04? I suspect that 1) the game object will be easy to scatter and 2) that the game object will scatter if and only if a robot (fox) hits a certain target area (henhouse), probably in auto mode. Of course, I could be all wrong, and the game object is some form of chicken...

Removal: Whack the Billfred. Logistical problems (again). Billfred obviously can't be in 8 places at once. Nuff' said.

[Birdman1011395]

So who's to say we're the fox?

And here's one question, do foxes carry off the chickens, or do they eat the chickens in the coop?

And the instant I type that something hits. Another name for a henhouse is a coop, kind of like Co-op, which is gamer slang for cooperative. A cooperative mode is not the traditional team multiplayer mode, but one where there is a single team "cooperating" towards a singular objective. Now could that mean that the game this year could be an indirect competition with the other alliance?

[Miroslav]

Originally Posted by Winged Globe

Wait... what?? Looking at the example for FRC controllers, it just looks like all the code thrown into a flow-chart interface (a graphical tool used in real computer science classes I've seen to teach the core logic/reasoning/organizing ANYONE needs in order to program). This isn't just script code like "turn left for blah seconds"--there seems to be a direct correlation between what the flow-chart displays and what the actual code will be (if count Bit 7 ON yes--> SET rc_dig_out16 ON, etc. etc.). It looks like you can comment directly into the flow-chart boxes to describe what is going on, too.

This means that the only difference between the flow-chart and actual code may be purely formating in nature, in which case, how does this have no correlation to the real world? Heck, it doesn't even look like pseudo-code; you have to use real variable names, real subroutine names, real function calls! And once a new programmer feels comfortable with the logic, *CLICK* and they see the real code! And it looks almost exactly like what they did with the flow-chart! "Wow! Maybe this programming stuff isn't so bad! I can do this..."

I can understand the nerd attachment to CLI's and aversion of all things graphical, but if the examples show the actual product delivered (and if FIRST/Kevin Watson brings the scripts back in addition to this interface, by all means, but that isn't this specific program), this is the most code-like graphical interface I've seen. I'm almost afraid that some newbie programmers will still be puzzled by it, as it isn't as graphical and perhaps as intuitive as Lego's interface or even Robolab. I really don't see what the big pout is all about. This seems to head in the right direction to get new programmers into the fold, while allowing novice programmers to transition and advanced programmers to keep hacking at their leisure.

'Winged Globe' has made a discovery about CoreChart and its direct correlation to assembler code. He is one of the few programmers who actually understands this. Most assume that because it is a flowchart program then it must be embedded code. CoreChart does NOT sacrifice any flexibility or access in programming at all but only makes the SAME programming graphical to avoid syntax errors.

The result is a Graphical Assembler which is used for Professional programming while being much easier to learn and start. Here at eLabtronics CoreChart has been used to create an intercooler spray controller program which predicts if the intercooler on a turbo engine will overheat and sprays water to stop this from happening. The real time system has 1/10,000 second cycle speed and is able to read 2 thermistors, 2 pots and 1 duty cyle signal from the injectors ( to 1% ) on a PIC16F84 running at 4MHz. Audizone in USA has given rave reviews on this product.

Similar products include a 29 unit array of DC-DC converters programmed in CoreChart for solar energy conversion used in the World Solar race. Thousands of students in High School are learning to use CoreChart. Some have gone on to do industry projects programmed in CoreChart sponsored by electronics companies.

We are currently working with some FIRST robotics teams mentor ( electronics company and college students ) to use CoreChart. We hope to continue with some of these FIRST robotics teams on CoreChart industry projects. The rational behind this is to enhance the employability of the FIRST robotics students.

Quote from an engineer at City University in London, England:

"There is a good feeling that embedded and robotics projects are
re-kindling students' interests. However, Assembly and C is quite a
challenge - even for professionals.

This is why I think Core Chart will succeed - its intuitive, simple to
understand whilst powerful as it is a full Assembler and affordable."

CoreChart is Assembler with graphical access. Most programmers do not look at CoreChart as closely as 'Winged Globe' and unfortunately they have assumed that CoreChart is another 'scripting' tool.

[Dan Petrovic]

Do you think they will stick with the three-team alliance? I really liked that idea.

[Andrew Blair]

Originally Posted by InfernoX14

Do you think they will stick with the three-team alliance? I really liked that idea.

I think they will for a couple of reasons. Obviously, the three teams require some more organization, and a more complicated game. For the first time we had to apply kind of an active traffic control as alliances.

Secondly, there are definitely more teams involved now. FIRST really has no option but to put more robots on the field in order to get all the matches in. FIRST could right now still keep a two alliance with difficulty, but in a short period that will be an impossibility.

[Nick Bailey]

I think it would be cool to have a 2v2v2 game. That way you would get a older game play method ('92-'98) but still with the same team capacity. At a demo I also found out the LED team markers can flash green.

[Petey]

I kind of hope they go back to 2x2. I wasn't a huge fan of the congestion in 3x3.

Good point above on analysis of "fox in the henhouse".

Furthermore, CD is getting a lot of marketing from these eLabtronics guys--somebody must have found that we're discussing CoreChart on here. One of them emailed me and was asking if my team would like to take advantage of their technology. This is strange, because it implies CoreChart will not be shipped with the KOP, as my sources had indicated it would be.

Of course, he might not be privy to the FIRST-eLabtronics relationship the way my source is.

Man. This is frustrating. I know Dave's hints are usually obfuscatory, but this is bad. "You already have it" has got to be the most obscure hint ever. Er, congratulations, Dave?

--Petey

[artdutra04]

Originally Posted by Petey

I kind of hope they go back to 2x2. I wasn't a huge fan of the congestion in 3x3.

Good point above on analysis of "fox in the henhouse".

Furthermore, CD is getting marketing spam from these eLabtronics guys--somebody must have found that we're discussing CoreChart on here. One of them emailed me and was asking if my team would like to take advantage of their technology. This is strange, because it implies CoreChart will not be shipped with the KOP, as my sources had indicated it would be.

Of course, he might not be privy to the FIRST-eLabtronics relationship the way my source is.

Man. This is frustrating. I know Dave's hints are usually obfuscatory, but this is bad. "You already have it" has got to be the most obscure hint ever. Er, congratulations, Dave?

--Petey

I have to disagree with you about the 3x3 games. A 3x3 game is soooo much more exciting - especially for the drivers/coach. You have to keep track of more robots, you have to coordinate you actions with your alliance better (i.e. three robots that all want to go to the two human tetra loaders at the same time), and overall, six robots at a time makes the game so much more interesting.

About the "marketing spam" part, I would not say that someone who is posting the specs about a programming software application for FIRST is spam. These guys are working hard to help even the playing field, and create a software to help non-programmers learn C easier. How is this any different than promoting any of the AndyMark tranmissions here? Many teams may not have full CNC facilities, so designing their own shifting transmissions is out of the picture. So purchasing an AndyMark transmission or wheels may be very beneficial to them, in the same way that CoreChart would help people without a knowledge of C programming to get their robot programmed.

Both AndyMark and eLabtronics are doing a wonderful job to help FIRST - as well as every other company that is donating resources/time to FIRST.

[Petey]

Originally Posted by artdutra04

I have to disagree with you about the 3x3 games. A 3x3 game is soooo much more exciting - especially for the drivers/coach. You have to keep track of more robots, you have to coordinate you actions with your alliance better (i.e. three robots that all want to go to the two human tetra loaders at the same time), and overall, six robots at a time makes the game so much more interesting.

About the "marketing spam" part, I would not say that someone who is posting the specs about a programming software application for FIRST is spam. These guys are working hard to help even the playing field, and create a software to help non-programmers learn C easier. How is this any different than promoting any of the AndyMark tranmissions here? Many teams may not have full CNC facilities, so designing their own shifting transmissions is out of the picture. So purchasing an AndyMark transmission or wheels may be very beneficial to them, in the same way that CoreChart would help people without a knowledge of C programming to get their robot programmed.

Both AndyMark and eLabtronics are doing a wonderful job to help FIRST - as well as every other company that is donating resources/time to FIRST.

Agreed. I edited out "Spam" in my above post. I was using it inaccurately.

But still--will we see CoreChart shipped with the KOP or not?

--Petey

[bear24rw]

Originally Posted by Petey

But still--will we see CoreChart shipped with the KOP or not?

--Petey

On ifirobotics.com, CoreChart is only under the programming section for the mini RC , i find it odd why it wouldn't be on the FRC page instead....

[Tom Bottiglieri]

All this talk of Batons has got me thinking...

[Ian Curtis]

Oh deary.

Originally Posted by dlavery

Originally Posted by kayla13
I am not a loser!!!

10/10 for always speaking the truth (and for getting Karthik to wear a kilt).

-dave

This one is definitely a hint. Reason being Dave posted in the Chit-Chat Forum, not the games and trivia but the Chit-chat. Now upon close examination we see that Dave Quoted the phrase "I am not a loser!!" Now there was only been 1 game in which that was law, namely Co-opertition in 2001 which was 4 vs. 0. I think there might be another hint in there but I can't figure it out.