Design Challenge: Baton

[Mike]

Someone posted a challenge to pick up a hula-hoop before, this is kinda like that. With all the talk of what the 2006 game is going to consist of, many people think that we will have to manipulate a baton-esque object.

So, how would you manipulate a baton?

[Billfred]

Well, it'd be tricky.

I suppose the best bet is to get some of the ribbed conveyor belting from McMaster-Carr (the stuff right below wedgetop in the catalog), then space a break every few inches for the nubs on the end. Put a ramp underneath, and drive that belt from the top. It should work...at least in my head.

[Kyle Love]

Like I'm going to tell you all.... I would use double set of manipulators that would resemble tweezers, and space them out so they grip a baton easily and do not have to be lined up just right, or I could use a conveyor belt with little C shapes on it to make like a belt flipping batons behind it into goals or whatever they are scored in. Going by history though, I would look for balls not batons...but then again, it is FIRST so it can be unpredictable.

[sciencenerd]

Well to start off, the types of manipulation available to a robot would depend on exactly what the baton looked like. For example: Are the ends flared? Is it hollow? Is it an open tube? How much does it weigh? Another important thing to consider while solving this problem is what you are going to have to do with the baton. If you just have to lift it up and put it in another place, that is one thing, but if you have to manipulate it in more sophisticated ways (such as loading it into a tube, for example) a more complex system capable of a greater range of motion is necessary. In other words, for a complete and plausible answer more information is necessary. Obviously in any solutions proposed, many properties of the baton are going to have to be assumed to make it easier to work with the model.

One way I can think of to pick up and manipulate with a fair range of motion a non-flared, tube-like baton (think a length of PVC pipe) is with two mechanisms, one relatively simple "positioner" and another, more complex "manipulator". In this design, I am also assuming you have to do something more complicated with the pipe than move it from point A to point B, so I have a component that allows the baton to be manipulated with some degree of dexterity.

The Positioner
The positioner would be a simple pair of jaws with two states: open and closed. The jaws would be long enough and open wide enough to open around a baton positioned near in front of a robot and close, positioning the baton in a defined location in front of the robot.

The Manipulator
From this point, the manipulator would take over. The end of the manipulator would be a prong that could extend through the interior of the baton. Once the manipulator had moved all the way into the baton, it would spring up a stop (or perhaps more than one) on the end, which would hold the baton in place on the prong. The prong within the baton would be attached to an arm that could manipulate the baton wherever it needed to go, loading it into a hole, or placing it in a hammock, or whatever else the challenge required.

Please critique! As they say... well I'm sure there's some famous quote on the necessity of peer review.

[sanddrag]

My dad has always thought it would be cool to have a relay race FRC game.

[Andrew Blair]

The best solution for handling and manipulation would probably be a log truck end effector. To see a guy with like three levers twirl around a massive tree and gently set it into a small spot on a truck, thats amazing! If the baton are relatively large. If they're small, who knows?

[Not2B]

If you have to place the baton with any accuracy, I'm thinking we might want to look closely at automatic screw feeders / sorters.

Anyway, to pick it up...
- Something that doesn't need to be placed accurately or lined up to the baton
- Something that doesn't need to be controlled by a human well, or at all
- Something that won't jam if they go in wrong
- Something that won't change shape/grip/size as time marches on

Can anyone else come up with some other performance characteristics? I KNOW there are more.

I know... I didn't answer the question. But that's OK. I'm just trying to think about the problem right now... (I wouldn't come up with a method for my own team either.)

[Andrew Blair]

1. Doesn't break! If you're going to have a fancy, manipulative end effector that's going to be in rough competition, it's got to be sturdy.
2. Small. For this reason:if you need to manuever a long object into a small spot (just speculation), it should be as unbulky as possible. No need to complicate the problem.

[ChrisH]

Originally Posted by Not2B

I know... I didn't answer the question. But that's OK. I'm just trying to think about the problem right now... (I wouldn't come up with a method for my own team either.)

Actually you've made the best start. Figure out what characteristics you want the machine to have first, then think about what it looks like or how it accomplishes the task. Because when you start comparing your concept list to the requirements list, a lot of concepts will drop out. They won't meet the requirement for one reason or another. Other concepts you might have to test first to figure out whether or not they will work

This is a hard discipline to learn, particularly for us creative types. We want to go out and build something right away. But it is better to think a little bit first.

[Not2B]

Originally Posted by ChrisH

Actually you've made the best start. Figure out what characteristics you want the machine to have first, then think about what it looks like or how it accomplishes the task. Because when you start comparing your concept list to the requirements list, a lot of concepts will drop out. They won't meet the requirement for one reason or another. Other concepts you might have to test first to figure out whether or not they will work

This is a hard discipline to learn, particularly for us creative types. We want to go out and build something right away. But it is better to think a little bit first.

No kidding. Getting the students to do this is, I think, one of the hardest things to mentor them on. It's takes some time to realize that your first idea is not always the best, and there ARE good, disiplined ways to select designs. Last year we had to withhold all materials and machine keys from the students until they completed a Pew Analysis of the game and possible robots... But I think they realized it was worth it....

[Nitroxextreme]

I would have to side with the what ifs category on this one...

It is my strong opinion that the hardest part of a relay type challenge with a batton would be the transfer

Getting one robot to do what you want it to do is possible...but hard all the same

If you had to somehow transfer a small object between robots there would be immense room for error

[DonRotolo]

Originally Posted by Not2B

Can anyone else come up with some other performance characteristics? I KNOW there are more.

The orientation of the baton will likely be random, so it needs to be able to handle that when picking it up.

I would imagine that the game might require some positive placement, rather than being able to just drop it, so manipulation might be important.

Robust, insensitive (especially to impacts) and not overly complex.

I like the idea of little to no operator skill required, the skill requirement is one thing that killed us last year, since we had nearly zero practice time before the regional.

The hint I saw mentioned something about 'things around the office' being an inspiration for the game - I see a wastebasket, or perhaps a pencil holder (e.g. a coffee can), so it may be necessary to pick up a baton in one orientation (horizontal) and dispose of it in another orientation (vertical).

My few cents' worth.

Don

[Rickertsen2]

Something with a "knobbler" on the front. The "knobbler "would sweep in batons. It would use either a shaft or conveyor belting with long springy metal bristles on it. The bristles would rotate and rake things into a bin. The entire mechanism could pivot up above the robot to dump the bin into wherever the batons need to be placed. Picture a dump truck lifting a dumpster overhead.

I could also imagine a mechanism in which the robot has a hollow space underneath. You drive over a baton and a wiper mechanism sweeps the baton into a tray. A line of really stiff bristles could be used instead.

[sanddrag]

Originally Posted by Rickertsen2

Something with a "knobbler" on the front. The "knobbler "would sweep in batons. It would use either a shaft or conveyor belting with long springy metal bristles on it. The bristles would rotate and rake things into a bin. The entire mechanism could pivot up above the robot to dump the bin into wherever the batons need to be placed. Picture a dump truck lifting a dumpster overhead.

I could also imagine a mechanism in which the robot has a hollow space underneath. You drive over a baton and a wiper mechanism sweeps the baton into a tray. A line of really stiff bristles could be used instead.

Yes, and then it is funneled into a V shaped thing so then it is lined up straight and a conveyor sort of system will carry it to the "hand" which places it whereever it needs to go.

I know my description is kind of vague but I think the "funnel" part is important, to ensure that is lines up straight.

[Andrew Blair]

For things on the ground, this is definentely one of the best ways. it lines 'em up straight, and all you do is drive into the baton. Like was said, just the v with parrallel conveyers.