Lego Mindstorms: What went wrong?

[Beth Sweet]

Originally Posted by eiii

The Mindstorm is definitly aimed towards younger kids, but there doesn't seem to be a huge amount of interest among them. Also, they're kinda costly.

I think you hit the nail on the head. Kids have a lot of toys aimed at them and in the minds of most, this is a toy like all the others. It is just too expensive in the minds of most and doesn't really offer too much more than other toys.

[Ian Curtis]

Remember a few years back when rumors flew that LEGO was cancelling the Mindstorms line? If I remember LEGO came within inches but didn't cross the border. Whew

I recieved a Mindstorms kit for christmas in either '99 or 2000. I played around with it for a while and then after a few simple carts kinda lost interest in it. Meanwhile my dad and one of my cousin built 3 axis arms and the like. I thought it was cool but never thought I could do it. My dad pretty much fell in love with it though and the following year my school had an FLL team. I immediately fell in love with FLL.

That being said, I think the kits are too open ended for the 9-12 age range. Having a competition like FLL however students are given something to work towards and are rewarding in a competitive atmosphere for their work, amoung their peers.

Also I believe that Mindstorms could be used much like Vex, if you get people to realize what complex things you can do. For example take this (its at the bottom of the newsletter) Mindstorms robot capable of moving 60 pounds! I consider any FLL team who can get everything on the table done 90% of the time to have created a piece of engineering equal to an FRC team who could cap a vision tetra 90% of the time.

(The only sad thing about this forum is it inevitably gets less traffic than the general forum, so most likely this topic will not be as well developed. Sigh... )

[jeffmorris]

I think that I wasted my money on LEGO Mindstorms sets and LEGO building sets. Is it possible to combine the LEGO Technic parts with the VEX Robotics parts?

[Al Skierkiewicz]

I cannot tell you how often this thread has appeared over the years. Virtually since the beginning of FLL someone comes up with a line about Lego dropping, cancelling support, modifying or selling off the Mindstorms product line. Untill I hear it from a Lego exec, I wouldn't believe it.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by jeffmorris

Is it possible to combine the LEGO Technic parts with the VEX Robotics parts?

I don't think so. The hole spacing is different, I think. I have toyed with both systems. (2 different Mindstorms sets and a bit with the family VEX set)

[greencactus3]

Originally Posted by EricH

I don't think so. The hole spacing is different, I think. I have toyed with both systems. (2 different Mindstorms sets and a bit with the family VEX set)

are you kidding. everything is possible. thats why these are so fun. ive combined lego and knex, erector(was it?), and too many nonconventional parts to list. vaccuum cleaners, oh which i actually have a video of. one of the first models i made when i got the mindstorms kit. and 15 lbs barbells... makes for a nice trebuche(sp?). yea. i reccomend that as a project to anyone interested in learning more about making beefier lego projects. the bracing required to keep a model together with 15lbs of swinging weight was lets say.... intense. i learned so much from building that.. well. point is. everything is adaptable somehow.

[KarenH]

The article discussed the production cost of the RCX--supposedly less than $1.00. The RCX currently retails for $119 on the Lego website, but is "Not Available" (and wasn't several weeks ago, when I researched the possibility of an upgrade for the FLL team my son is mentoring). Since the Mindstorms RIS set itself costs $199, it's almost more cost effective to just buy another RIS set.

So, the most important part of the set is both ridiculously expensive and officially irreplaceable. Such a practice won't endear Lego to American consumers who are interested in getting a good value.

I also found the concept of "Lego literacy" interesting. I used to play with Legos when I was a kid, but I think I would be unable to do anything with the newer, fancier, and over-specialized kits sold these days. (I really don't want transparent pink bat wings on my little brick boat, thank you!) But I think the Mindstorms kit offers excellent mentoring possibilities between the older Lego-literate maniacs and the interested but Lego-illiterate younger kids.

[greencactus3]

Originally Posted by KarenH

So, the most important part of the set is both ridiculously expensive and officially irreplaceable. Such a practice won't endear Lego to American consumers who are interested in getting a good value.

nah. look at the ipod. look at um. EVERYTHING

[Ryan M.]

Originally Posted by greencactus3

nah. look at the ipod. look at um. EVERYTHING

But the difference between and iPod and Mindstorms is that there are other MP3 players, where as Mindstorm's competition is... nothing.

[JoeXIII'007]

Originally Posted by Ryan M.

But the difference between and iPod and Mindstorms is that there are other MP3 players, where as Mindstorm's competition is... nothing.

Really??? I thought Cyber K'NEX was a competitor of sorts.

[Ryan M.]

Originally Posted by JoeXIII'007

Really??? I thought Cyber K'NEX was a competitor of sorts.

Good point, although the fact that I didn't think of it indicates it may not a be a really strong competitor. (Or that I just didn't. Whichever.)

I do feel that part of Mindstorm's "problem" is that there is at least an appearance of little competition. Because people aren't aware of the (somewhat limited) alternatives, they don't buy them, so LEGO has little motivation for improvement.

[JoeXIII'007]

Thought I would put one more thing down on this lack of competition argument. Cyber K'NEX had to be Mindstorms's biggest enemy. It had a lot more advertising than I saw Mindstorms having, and what really damaged LEGO was the price difference: $200 for a Mindstorms kit vs. about $120 for the Ultra (complete) Cyber K'nex set. There were other, cheaper, and more limited sets in the K'Nex line as well. Also, the CK set allowed for real time user control (though bad, it still was pretty darn cool) in the box. with Mindstorms, you have to buy the remote control separately.

So though limitations were a bit more abundant on the KNEX side, I think the $80 price difference really offsets that. I have one of those sets, and I can do a lot of fun things with it, some I cannot do with Lego.

-Joe

[fb39ca4]

Originally Posted by JoeXIII'007

Really??? I thought Cyber K'NEX was a competitor of sorts.

Hardly. I had a Cyber K'nex set and it is about as functional as the Mindstorms Droid Developer Kit - one motor, a few pre-programmed behaviors, and some cheesy sound effects.

[Schnabel]

Wow, when this tread was created I was still in Lego League. Talk about back from the dead!

[Calvin Hartley]

Originally Posted by Schnabel

Wow, when this tread was created I was still in Lego League. Talk about back from the dead!

I had thoughts along those lines too, Eric! On a similar note, I see you're with from Flint, (and 314) would you happen to have ever been around at the FLL State Championship events there in Flint? If so, would you happen to remember LEGOs In Paradise?