Lego Mindstorms: What went wrong?

[KarenH]

The article discussed the production cost of the RCX--supposedly less than $1.00. The RCX currently retails for $119 on the Lego website, but is "Not Available" (and wasn't several weeks ago, when I researched the possibility of an upgrade for the FLL team my son is mentoring). Since the Mindstorms RIS set itself costs $199, it's almost more cost effective to just buy another RIS set.

So, the most important part of the set is both ridiculously expensive and officially irreplaceable. Such a practice won't endear Lego to American consumers who are interested in getting a good value.

I also found the concept of "Lego literacy" interesting. I used to play with Legos when I was a kid, but I think I would be unable to do anything with the newer, fancier, and over-specialized kits sold these days. (I really don't want transparent pink bat wings on my little brick boat, thank you!) But I think the Mindstorms kit offers excellent mentoring possibilities between the older Lego-literate maniacs and the interested but Lego-illiterate younger kids.

[greencactus3]

Originally Posted by KarenH

So, the most important part of the set is both ridiculously expensive and officially irreplaceable. Such a practice won't endear Lego to American consumers who are interested in getting a good value.

nah. look at the ipod. look at um. EVERYTHING

[Ryan M.]

Originally Posted by greencactus3

nah. look at the ipod. look at um. EVERYTHING

But the difference between and iPod and Mindstorms is that there are other MP3 players, where as Mindstorm's competition is... nothing.

[JoeXIII'007]

Originally Posted by Ryan M.

But the difference between and iPod and Mindstorms is that there are other MP3 players, where as Mindstorm's competition is... nothing.

Really??? I thought Cyber K'NEX was a competitor of sorts.

[Ryan M.]

Originally Posted by JoeXIII'007

Really??? I thought Cyber K'NEX was a competitor of sorts.

Good point, although the fact that I didn't think of it indicates it may not a be a really strong competitor. (Or that I just didn't. Whichever.)

I do feel that part of Mindstorm's "problem" is that there is at least an appearance of little competition. Because people aren't aware of the (somewhat limited) alternatives, they don't buy them, so LEGO has little motivation for improvement.

[JoeXIII'007]

Thought I would put one more thing down on this lack of competition argument. Cyber K'NEX had to be Mindstorms's biggest enemy. It had a lot more advertising than I saw Mindstorms having, and what really damaged LEGO was the price difference: $200 for a Mindstorms kit vs. about $120 for the Ultra (complete) Cyber K'nex set. There were other, cheaper, and more limited sets in the K'Nex line as well. Also, the CK set allowed for real time user control (though bad, it still was pretty darn cool) in the box. with Mindstorms, you have to buy the remote control separately.

So though limitations were a bit more abundant on the KNEX side, I think the $80 price difference really offsets that. I have one of those sets, and I can do a lot of fun things with it, some I cannot do with Lego.

-Joe

[fb39ca4]

Originally Posted by JoeXIII'007

Really??? I thought Cyber K'NEX was a competitor of sorts.

Hardly. I had a Cyber K'nex set and it is about as functional as the Mindstorms Droid Developer Kit - one motor, a few pre-programmed behaviors, and some cheesy sound effects.

[Schnabel]

Wow, when this tread was created I was still in Lego League. Talk about back from the dead!

[Calvin Hartley]

Originally Posted by Schnabel

Wow, when this tread was created I was still in Lego League. Talk about back from the dead!

I had thoughts along those lines too, Eric! On a similar note, I see you're with from Flint, (and 314) would you happen to have ever been around at the FLL State Championship events there in Flint? If so, would you happen to remember LEGOs In Paradise?

[Schnabel]

Originally Posted by Calvin Hartley

...would you happen to have ever been around at the FLL State Championship events there in Flint? If so, would you happen to remember LEGOs In Paradise?

Sorry no, I'm originally from Indiana and never made it up to Michigan for competition.

[Calvin Hartley]

Originally Posted by Schnabel

Sorry no, I'm originally from Indiana and never made it up to Michigan for competition.

Ahh, that's alright. Just curious.

[Jessica Boucher]

Originally Posted by Ryan M.

But the difference between and iPod and Mindstorms is that there are other MP3 players, where as Mindstorm's competition is... nothing.

I think what greencactus was trying to get at (and if I'm wrong, please correct me) was the economic sense of their similarities, which hails back to the theme of the article. In that sense of the word, the iPod and the RCX are durable goods (which can be used over and over again) as opposed to nondurable goods which can be used once (like food).

The Mindstorms RIS and the iPod are also similar because they're touted as the "big holiday gift", much like an iPod or a computer.

There's lots more I want to say about this later. This is a great discussion - keep it up!

[greencactus3]

Originally Posted by Jessica Boucher

I think what greencactus was trying to get at (and if I'm wrong, please correct me) was the economic sense of their similarities, which hails back to the theme of the article. In that sense of the word, the iPod and the RCX are durable goods (which can be used over and over again) as opposed to nondurable goods which can be used once (like food).

The Mindstorms RIS and the iPod are also similar because they're touted as the "big holiday gift", much like an iPod or a computer.

There's lots more I want to say about this later. This is a great discussion - keep it up!

well. wasnt thinking too deeply. just listed it as an example of sumthign thats overpriced for what it costs to build it. but yea. sumthing like that... LEGO is a brand name product. like say, adidas. everyone will agree that adidas shoes are more expensive than other cheaper offbrand ones. most will probably agree they do perform better but still the production cost/retail price gap is pretty big. but people understand that and still buy them. its because they are a reputable brand and work well (no flaming, nike fans). same with lego. they can sell at a higher price than competition...(cant quit think of an offbrand name but im sure a lot of peopl have seen imitation lego blocks. they are not as durable, are not as precision (might need some filing to fit) and such. so people buy lego at high prices.
and as for the there's no competition for mindstorms, how exactly are you defining competition? VEX is a great example of competition i think. if there were no VEX, there would be a couple more mindstorms sets being sold.. which i would say is the definition of competing products. maybe not as much rivalry between these as such with mp3 players but thats probably because not more than 50% of the high school population... unno how high overall..(oh and 50% was pulled out of my. um.. head.. so dont bother arguing its wrong) is a lot more being sold than the mindstorms.

..... i really need to brush up my writing skills. i need a firm thesis statement... or so my english teacher told me last year

[Danny Diaz]

Originally Posted by KarenH

The RCX ... is "Not Available"

Maybe they ARE gearing up for something new, there's not been a whole lot going on recently with it... I dunno, most companies put stuff out around Christmas time, no? I would expect to see something from LEGO (if they were coming out with something new) around that kind of time period if they were releasing - I guess they're not doing anything this year, but next year maybe? Remember that Mindstorms accounts for 40% of the Educational Division sales... if you fail to innovate you fail to bring in revenue - take LabVIEW or Windows for instance, when a new version releases a company's revenue increases drastically and then starts to fall off, after which they must produce a new version to keep up revenue. LEGO must continue to innovate or else get left behind, and I'm sure they know that!

Most of the rumors about LEGO Mindstorms being dropped were kinda true and kinda not - the Robotics Invention Systems kits were dropped from retail so that the Educational kits were the only systems being made by LEGO. Somebody heard about it early and freaked out, and spread the word that it was dying when in fact the Mindstorms themselves weren't.

I'd be careful about spreading rumors about something like that - the real LEGO enthusiasts go ballistic in no time...

-Danny