Pittsburgh and Cleveland Regionals

[Tuba4]

Ms. K and I have had this discussion several times since seeing the schedule of regionals. It seems there are several cases of geographically close regionals being held on the same weekend. Cleveland and Pittsburgh were the ones that impacted the Red Barons because we have historically gone to both. The exception being last year when we chose to head north to visit Karthik and Co in Toronto.

Actually the situation was even more complicated for the Barons this year. We had previously considered going to the Finger Lakes Regional, but this year it is the same weekend as Pittsburgh and Cleveland. The three regionals that were the closest to us here in Erie, PA were all the same weekend!! Go figure!? How many other teams have been forced to chose between regionals they had previously attended which were now on the same weekend??

I note there are currently 6 regionals with double digit open capacity. I also wonder how long a regional like Pittsburgh can continue with 23 teams?

Also, we have been at Buckeye in the past when there were 64 teams attending. There seemed to be plenty of room then. Just a thought, but if Pittsburgh only has 23 teams registered or pending, why not cancel Pittsburgh and add those teams to the 45 registered or pending in Cleveland?

[KenWittlief]

because for many regionals a good percentage of the teams attending are local:

no chartered bus
no hotel rooms
the students go home at night - less expense for meals.

If you cancelled a local regional, many of those teams could not afford to travel to another city.

I had to check for myself: Cleveland, Pittsburgh and Rochester-NY all on the same weekend. Wow! Thats gonna make teams from our area really spread out this year for 2nd regionals!

[Tuba4]

Ken,

Your point is well taken. However in the case of the 13 teams registered and 10 teams pending, only two or three appear to be from the local Pittsburgh area and would not be traveling and staying overnight. Many of the rest appear to be coming from fairly long distances, so whether the destination is Pittsburgh or Cleveland probably wouldn't matter that much. I guess I was really thinking of the long term viability of two geographically close regionals being held on the same weekend.

And besides, when you come down to playoffs, 3 doesn't go into 23 evenly!!

Seriously though, if Pittsburgh and Cleveland were not on the same weekend, they would both be close to capacity.

[Bill Moore]

Originally Posted by Tuba4

However in the case of the 13 teams registered and 10 teams pending, only two or three appear to be from the local Pittsburgh area and would not be traveling and staying overnight. Many of the rest appear to be coming from fairly long distances, so whether the destination is Pittsburgh or Cleveland probably wouldn't matter that much.

When we selected Pittsburgh as the Regional to attend, it certainly was not because of the geographical argument. We looked at more than seven Regionals within driving distance and asked which would present the best opportunity for our students to develop and share the skills they have learned through this program. Pittsburgh was the choice we made. If that becomes unviable, FIRST should refund the teams entry fees, and allow the teams to decide whether or where to attend another regional.

Originally Posted by Tuba4

I guess I was really thinking of the long term viability of two geographically close regionals being held on the same weekend.

FIRST obviously made a mistake by doing this, and hopefully they will take this learning forward as they schedule in future years.

[KenWittlief]

it seems like things should balance out in the big picture.

If 150 teams in the Cleveland, pittsburgh and rochester NH 'area' are all planning on attending 2 regionals, and this year they cannot goto their 2nd regional at one of these three cities, then they will have to go somewhere else

which means these teams will be registering at other regionals this year (other cities) - so those other cities events will be filling up faster, prompting teams to travel further to attend Cleveland, Pittsburgh and Rochester as their 2nd regional.

If 500 or 600 teams are funded to attend 2 regionals this year, they have to go somewhere, right?

[slickguy2007]

Originally Posted by KenWittlief

it seems like things should balance out in the big picture.

If 150 teams in the Cleveland, pittsburgh and rochester NH 'area' are all planning on attending 2 regionals, and this year they cannot goto their 2nd regional at one of these three cities, then they will have to go somewhere else

which means these teams will be registering at other regionals this year (other cities) - so those other cities events will be filling up faster, prompting teams to travel further to attend Cleveland, Pittsburgh and Rochester as their 2nd regional.

If 500 or 600 teams are funded to attend 2 regionals this year, they have to go somewhere, right?

Or they may just decide to save the money not to go to a second regional?

GO 1403!!!

[Andrew Blair]

Well, your friends down in Corry (306) have been struck with the same problem. We signed up for the Pittsburgh regional, and we decided to go down to Philly for our second. I think CIA may be going to Philly as well, though I can't be sure.

[Bill Moore]

Originally Posted by Andrew Blair

Well, your friends down in Corry (306) have been struck with the same problem. We signed up for the Pittsburgh regional, and we decided to go down to Philly for our second. I think CIA may be going to Philly as well, though I can't be sure.

Yes, CIA is registered for both.

Last year, I believe only two teams went to both Pitt and Philly; Royal Assault (357) and MOE (365). This year it looks like at least 4 teams will attend both; CIA (291), Corry (306), The Metal Moose (1391) [pending at Pitt], and MOE (365).

[Tuba4]

Originally Posted by KenWittlief

it seems like things should balance out in the big picture.

If 150 teams in the Cleveland, pittsburgh and rochester NH 'area' are all planning on attending 2 regionals, and this year they cannot goto their 2nd regional at one of these three cities, then they will have to go somewhere else

which means these teams will be registering at other regionals this year (other cities) - so those other cities events will be filling up faster, prompting teams to travel further to attend Cleveland, Pittsburgh and Rochester as their 2nd regional.

If 500 or 600 teams are funded to attend 2 regionals this year, they have to go somewhere, right?

Perhaps. But perhaps not. There are two intertwined factors to be considered. Distance and finances. If the distance to be traveled increases significantly, then the cost will most certainly go up. A team may have funding to go to two of the three geographically closest regionals. If those were all on the same weekend the choice would be limited to one. If the next closest regional were farther away, an extra day of travel and perhaps an additional night or two of hotels could come into play.

To our neighboring teams 291 and 306: When are you leaving to travel to Philly? Are you traveling on Wednesday or are you leaving really, really early Thursday morning? And I would wager that if Pitt and Clev were not on the same weekend that you would have gone to both.

[Kyle A]

To our neighboring teams 291 and 306: When are you leaving to travel to Philly? Are you traveling on Wednesday or are you leaving really, really early Thursday morning? And I would wager that if Pitt and Clev were not on the same weekend that you would have gone to both.[/quote]

Right now we do not know what we are going to do. But I believe that we will most likely leave on Wednesday.

[Chris Fultz]

Regional dates are usually set by the facility, not by FIRST, and are usually during the spring break of the campus where the event is being held.

There is not much FIRST can do, because there are limited arenas in any given city that can host.

[Tuba4]

Originally Posted by Chris Fultz

Regional dates are usually set by the facility, not by FIRST, and are usually during the spring break of the campus where the event is being held.

There is not much FIRST can do, because there are limited arenas in any given city that can host.

I am not sure I would agree with Chris. Regional dates are not actually set by the facility. The facility merely says here are the dates we have open. Granted, the dates may be limited by other contractual obligations, but the local event organizers have the final decision.

As far as the Wohlstein Center in Cleveland and the Petersen Center in Pittsburgh go, the primary users of those arenas are the respective schools basketball teams. And if those teams are still playing in March, then they are playing elsewhere as March Madness and the NIT are in full swing! Spring break probably has little or no impact on these arenas.

Concerts and other events are held in these venues. But they are not the primary sites for such events in their respective markets. The problem with scheduling regionals really comes down to a site having four or five open days in a row - three days for the actual event and a day or two for set up.

If FIRST is to continue to grow, more regionals will be needed to accommodate more teams. That will make scheduling issues even more complex. Perhaps FIRST will be well served to engage the services of a national promotion company like Clear Channel. Actually Clear Channel may be just the thing. They own, operate or have promotional rights at dozens if not hundreds of arenas and theaters nationwide.

[Collin Fultz]

Originally Posted by Tuba4

I am not sure I would agree with Chris. Regional dates are not actually set by the facility. The facility merely says here are the dates we have open. Granted, the dates may be limited by other contractual obligations, but the local event organizers have the final decision.

As far as the Wohlstein Center in Cleveland and the Petersen Center in Pittsburgh go, the primary users of those arenas are the respective schools basketball teams.Spring break probably has little or no impact on these arenas.

This is absolutely wrong. In order for BMR to happen, it must be when Purdue students are on spring break. Period. Otherwise the Armory is in use, and, oh say about 40,000 undergrads (plus faculty and grad students ) are walking around campus, trying to drive and park, etc. The same can be said for the MWR which is at the University of Illinois Chicago. I only mention these two because I know first-hand about them.

You can't just think about the arena. You must think about the surrounding area (campus) when looking at a venue.

One perk of this, if you want to know early where your favorite regional is going to be, and it happens to be at a college campus, just find out that campus' spring break.

[Bill Moore]

Originally Posted by Collin Fultz

You can't just think about the arena. You must think about the surrounding area (campus) when looking at a venue.

Originally Posted by Tuba4

And if those teams are still playing in March, then they are playing elsewhere as March Madness and the NIT are in full swing! Spring break probably has little or no impact on these arenas.

Actually, there are 2 "March Madnesses", you cannot forget the womens basketball tournament as well. The first round of these tournaments, 64 teams playing, require 8 regional arenas (some sports freak can correct me on that number), and the arenas are not "static" but change from year to year.

The NCAA may not grant a basketball playoff to a smaller arena (say Drexel), but the Pedersen Center certainly could be considered as a host for playoffs. So college basketball, can certainly affect the availability of these arenas during March.

[Robocat1]

Team #379 is EXACTLY right between CLE & PIT (along w/ two other teams: Chaney & Warren Delphi ELITE) - the same weekend scheduling sent our team into a whole other FIRST Frenzy! Neither regional had cost us hotel money or the cost of Charter bussing (our students always pay all food expenses, so that's irrelevant).

So, we're going to CLE (sorry PIT - we had sooo much fun dancing and cheering with everyone), and missing PIT. We can't stay the night at CLE (yeah, we meet at 5:30 a.m. and return between 9-midnight - that gives us about 4-6 hours of sleep, so please forgive us if we're not dancing and cheering & some of us fall asleep in the bleachers!).

Then, we had to decide where else to go. Logistics determined Detroit & Philly (giving up Atlanta for something new). But, we can only afford to take 4-6 members to Detroit at 3 a.m. on TH and the rest of the team at 3 a.m. on FRI morning.)

Because we're paying for hotels & charter bussing for 2 regionals instead of 1, even if we qualify for nationals, its doubtful the money will be available to go!

This will cut into our spirit and team togetherness. We really feel FIRST needs to oversee the scheduling so this doesn't happen so often. Coming up with the entry fee is tough enough when you don't have to pay for charter busses and hotel; add those extra expenses in again next year and we may not be able to make it (no corporate sponsor, we lost GM 5 years ago, and no school money for us).