Pittsburgh and Cleveland Regionals

[KenWittlief]

it seems like things should balance out in the big picture.

If 150 teams in the Cleveland, pittsburgh and rochester NH 'area' are all planning on attending 2 regionals, and this year they cannot goto their 2nd regional at one of these three cities, then they will have to go somewhere else

which means these teams will be registering at other regionals this year (other cities) - so those other cities events will be filling up faster, prompting teams to travel further to attend Cleveland, Pittsburgh and Rochester as their 2nd regional.

If 500 or 600 teams are funded to attend 2 regionals this year, they have to go somewhere, right?

[slickguy2007]

Originally Posted by KenWittlief

it seems like things should balance out in the big picture.

If 150 teams in the Cleveland, pittsburgh and rochester NH 'area' are all planning on attending 2 regionals, and this year they cannot goto their 2nd regional at one of these three cities, then they will have to go somewhere else

which means these teams will be registering at other regionals this year (other cities) - so those other cities events will be filling up faster, prompting teams to travel further to attend Cleveland, Pittsburgh and Rochester as their 2nd regional.

If 500 or 600 teams are funded to attend 2 regionals this year, they have to go somewhere, right?

Or they may just decide to save the money not to go to a second regional?

GO 1403!!!

[Andrew Blair]

Well, your friends down in Corry (306) have been struck with the same problem. We signed up for the Pittsburgh regional, and we decided to go down to Philly for our second. I think CIA may be going to Philly as well, though I can't be sure.

[Bill Moore]

Originally Posted by Andrew Blair

Well, your friends down in Corry (306) have been struck with the same problem. We signed up for the Pittsburgh regional, and we decided to go down to Philly for our second. I think CIA may be going to Philly as well, though I can't be sure.

Yes, CIA is registered for both.

Last year, I believe only two teams went to both Pitt and Philly; Royal Assault (357) and MOE (365). This year it looks like at least 4 teams will attend both; CIA (291), Corry (306), The Metal Moose (1391) [pending at Pitt], and MOE (365).

[Tuba4]

Originally Posted by KenWittlief

it seems like things should balance out in the big picture.

If 150 teams in the Cleveland, pittsburgh and rochester NH 'area' are all planning on attending 2 regionals, and this year they cannot goto their 2nd regional at one of these three cities, then they will have to go somewhere else

which means these teams will be registering at other regionals this year (other cities) - so those other cities events will be filling up faster, prompting teams to travel further to attend Cleveland, Pittsburgh and Rochester as their 2nd regional.

If 500 or 600 teams are funded to attend 2 regionals this year, they have to go somewhere, right?

Perhaps. But perhaps not. There are two intertwined factors to be considered. Distance and finances. If the distance to be traveled increases significantly, then the cost will most certainly go up. A team may have funding to go to two of the three geographically closest regionals. If those were all on the same weekend the choice would be limited to one. If the next closest regional were farther away, an extra day of travel and perhaps an additional night or two of hotels could come into play.

To our neighboring teams 291 and 306: When are you leaving to travel to Philly? Are you traveling on Wednesday or are you leaving really, really early Thursday morning? And I would wager that if Pitt and Clev were not on the same weekend that you would have gone to both.

[Kyle A]

To our neighboring teams 291 and 306: When are you leaving to travel to Philly? Are you traveling on Wednesday or are you leaving really, really early Thursday morning? And I would wager that if Pitt and Clev were not on the same weekend that you would have gone to both.[/quote]

Right now we do not know what we are going to do. But I believe that we will most likely leave on Wednesday.

[Chris Fultz]

Regional dates are usually set by the facility, not by FIRST, and are usually during the spring break of the campus where the event is being held.

There is not much FIRST can do, because there are limited arenas in any given city that can host.

[Tuba4]

Originally Posted by Chris Fultz

Regional dates are usually set by the facility, not by FIRST, and are usually during the spring break of the campus where the event is being held.

There is not much FIRST can do, because there are limited arenas in any given city that can host.

I am not sure I would agree with Chris. Regional dates are not actually set by the facility. The facility merely says here are the dates we have open. Granted, the dates may be limited by other contractual obligations, but the local event organizers have the final decision.

As far as the Wohlstein Center in Cleveland and the Petersen Center in Pittsburgh go, the primary users of those arenas are the respective schools basketball teams. And if those teams are still playing in March, then they are playing elsewhere as March Madness and the NIT are in full swing! Spring break probably has little or no impact on these arenas.

Concerts and other events are held in these venues. But they are not the primary sites for such events in their respective markets. The problem with scheduling regionals really comes down to a site having four or five open days in a row - three days for the actual event and a day or two for set up.

If FIRST is to continue to grow, more regionals will be needed to accommodate more teams. That will make scheduling issues even more complex. Perhaps FIRST will be well served to engage the services of a national promotion company like Clear Channel. Actually Clear Channel may be just the thing. They own, operate or have promotional rights at dozens if not hundreds of arenas and theaters nationwide.

[Collin Fultz]

Originally Posted by Tuba4

I am not sure I would agree with Chris. Regional dates are not actually set by the facility. The facility merely says here are the dates we have open. Granted, the dates may be limited by other contractual obligations, but the local event organizers have the final decision.

As far as the Wohlstein Center in Cleveland and the Petersen Center in Pittsburgh go, the primary users of those arenas are the respective schools basketball teams.Spring break probably has little or no impact on these arenas.

This is absolutely wrong. In order for BMR to happen, it must be when Purdue students are on spring break. Period. Otherwise the Armory is in use, and, oh say about 40,000 undergrads (plus faculty and grad students ) are walking around campus, trying to drive and park, etc. The same can be said for the MWR which is at the University of Illinois Chicago. I only mention these two because I know first-hand about them.

You can't just think about the arena. You must think about the surrounding area (campus) when looking at a venue.

One perk of this, if you want to know early where your favorite regional is going to be, and it happens to be at a college campus, just find out that campus' spring break.

[Bill Moore]

Originally Posted by Collin Fultz

You can't just think about the arena. You must think about the surrounding area (campus) when looking at a venue.

Originally Posted by Tuba4

And if those teams are still playing in March, then they are playing elsewhere as March Madness and the NIT are in full swing! Spring break probably has little or no impact on these arenas.

Actually, there are 2 "March Madnesses", you cannot forget the womens basketball tournament as well. The first round of these tournaments, 64 teams playing, require 8 regional arenas (some sports freak can correct me on that number), and the arenas are not "static" but change from year to year.

The NCAA may not grant a basketball playoff to a smaller arena (say Drexel), but the Pedersen Center certainly could be considered as a host for playoffs. So college basketball, can certainly affect the availability of these arenas during March.

[Robocat1]

Team #379 is EXACTLY right between CLE & PIT (along w/ two other teams: Chaney & Warren Delphi ELITE) - the same weekend scheduling sent our team into a whole other FIRST Frenzy! Neither regional had cost us hotel money or the cost of Charter bussing (our students always pay all food expenses, so that's irrelevant).

So, we're going to CLE (sorry PIT - we had sooo much fun dancing and cheering with everyone), and missing PIT. We can't stay the night at CLE (yeah, we meet at 5:30 a.m. and return between 9-midnight - that gives us about 4-6 hours of sleep, so please forgive us if we're not dancing and cheering & some of us fall asleep in the bleachers!).

Then, we had to decide where else to go. Logistics determined Detroit & Philly (giving up Atlanta for something new). But, we can only afford to take 4-6 members to Detroit at 3 a.m. on TH and the rest of the team at 3 a.m. on FRI morning.)

Because we're paying for hotels & charter bussing for 2 regionals instead of 1, even if we qualify for nationals, its doubtful the money will be available to go!

This will cut into our spirit and team togetherness. We really feel FIRST needs to oversee the scheduling so this doesn't happen so often. Coming up with the entry fee is tough enough when you don't have to pay for charter busses and hotel; add those extra expenses in again next year and we may not be able to make it (no corporate sponsor, we lost GM 5 years ago, and no school money for us).

[Rich Kressly]

Please also realize FIRST has very little bargaining power with any of the regional venues. All of these relationships are based on trust and the willingness of the venue to do something good for the community. For events on college campuses, spring break really is the only time it's even possible to hold such an event. Field houses and arenas are not only for sporting events and concerts, they are also the workplace for many many people each day and they are in use by students/faculty all throughout the day for many purposes. Practices, meetings, office work, weight rooms, the list goes on and on.

In order to pull off an event you not only need the space for field and pit, but you need a judges room, a chairman's award interview area, an animation viewing/judging area, an event office where the production team calls home base (creates/prints scripts, schedules, meets, etc), an area for volunteers, VIP space, concessions, caterers, perhaps a social. Add into that the notion that load-in for the event begins on Tuesday or Wednesday. You also need security, EMT's, the list gets even longer. Parking, all those busses and trucks with event and team equipment ... this is no small undertaking. For a university to allow this type of activity and make all of these arrangements while school is in session is nearly impossible.

This of course leaves the larger, professional arenas. In many cases this is a much more costly endeavor and a harder sell to people who are generally motivated by profit alone. Some cities pull this off with great success, but it's a small number.

There is no doubt FIRST is well aware of the crossover/proximity/date issues every year. When faced with the choice between having or not having an event, FIRST will always try to hold the event and give more students an opportunity.

[Tuba4]

Originally Posted by Bill Moore

Actually, there are 2 "March Madnesses", you cannot forget the womens basketball tournament as well. The first round of these tournaments, 64 teams playing, require 8 regional arenas (some sports freak can correct me on that number), and the arenas are not "static" but change from year to year.

The NCAA may not grant a basketball playoff to a smaller arena (say Drexel), but the Pedersen Center certainly could be considered as a host for playoffs. So college basketball, can certainly affect the availability of these arenas during March.

Point is well taken regarding the "other" March Madness tournament. But I would wager if the NCAA held a regional or sub-regional in Pittsburgh, it would be at the Mellon Arena which seats 17,500 for basketball/hockey. If the NCAA went to Cleveland, the event would undoubtedly be held at the Quicken Loans Arena (don't you just love the commercialization of names?)
which can seat 19,000+ for basketball. I would imagine both places would be well out of the budget range for a FIRST event.

Just out of curiosity, how big is the typical arena that a FIRST regional is held at? I can only speak to the ones where I have attended.

Cleveland - Wohlstein Center - 13,500
Pittsburgh - Petersen Center - 12,500
GTR Mississauga - Hershey Centre (Canadian spelling!!) - 5,400
Atlanta - Georgia Dome - 80,000

[jar3232]

Last year CSU hosted the first round of the NCAA tourney, plus two rounds of the NIT tourney. Pitt usually does the same thing. A lot more money in NCAA events than FIRST sadly. The Q (Gund) has never hosted an NCAA event as far as I can remember.

[AmyPrib]

Originally Posted by Tuba4

Just out of curiosity, how big is the typical arena that a FIRST regional is held at? I can only speak to the ones where I have attended.

The Boilermaker is about 2200 max capacity for seating people, and we have to bring in bleachers to our venue. That capacity is the safety fire code max for us.

A note about sports arenas also - some venues, like college campuses, may not be willing to give up or rent out their facilities due to many factors. In our case, there may be sports events scheduled late that take precendence over a robotics event in the sports arena, so if we reserved it, it doesn't mean we'll get to use it. We have a smaller venue due to that, but most events I've been to, it's been hard to match the excitement and atmosphere created in our smaller venue.

Anyway, the scheduling looks pretty harsh in some areas with nearby regionals all on the same weekend. Hopefully waitlisted teams have the means to spread out and attend other unfilled events.