What kind of car do you drive??

[Mini-D67]

Two words green... Traction Control.

And I dont know what trucks you've driven, but of the ones I have - flooring it from a stop will not, in most cases, break the tires loose bad enough to effect acceleration too badly.

[greencactus3]

Originally Posted by Mini-D67

Two words green... Traction Control.

And I dont know what trucks you've driven, but of the ones I have - flooring it from a stop will not, in most cases, break the tires loose bad enough to effect acceleration too badly.

nope. dont have that. 98 4.3l s10... basically stock. i can break my tires loose way into second gear. into 3rd if i wanted to. so yes i would say it would affect acceleration a lot. then again on the other hand my friend'd dakota either has very little low end torque (dont know much about dakotas) or has full time traction control. so it cant slip the tires on dry pavement. or smaller engine. unno which one he has. but the tach goes to 7k before it goes red so obviously its powerband is different from my truck where redline is at 5k...

[KTorak]

Originally Posted by Wetzel

~20 might be great mileage for a truck, but in general it is rather crappy. I'm averaging ~37MPG so far with my Civic.

Is ~20 really great for a truck?

Wetzel

Yep. I'm lucky to get about 16/17 in my '96 Jeep Grand Cherokee.

[Mini-D67]

Originally Posted by greencactus3

nope. dont have that. 98 4.3l s10... basically stock. i can break my tires loose way into second gear. into 3rd if i wanted to. so yes i would say it would affect acceleration a lot. then again on the other hand my friend'd dakota either has very little low end torque (dont know much about dakotas) or has full time traction control. so it cant slip the tires on dry pavement. or smaller engine. unno which one he has. but the tach goes to 7k before it goes red so obviously its powerband is different from my truck where redline is at 5k...

You're obviously talking about a manual... we were discussing autos, as that is what C&D tested.

Heck, I could break the tires (tire?) loose on my firends old Saab 4 banger if I popped the clutch...

[Wetzel]

Originally Posted by Mini-D67

Heck, I could break the tires (tire?) loose on my firends old Saab 4 banger if I popped the clutch...

What Saab? My brother had an old Saab 99 for a while. That thing was from 1976 and had so much technology in it. A good car, except his didn't run much.

Being a "4 banger" doesn't make it hard to break the tires loose. The Honda S2000 is 'only' a "4 banger", but it makes 200 horsepower out of its 2L engine. I can chip the tires through 3rd (maybe more, but by then I've run out of speed limit) gear in my girlfriends 4 banger Miata.

I could break the tires loose on my old Storm going into 2nd, and it had a automatic and a 4 cylinder engine.

Nothing wrong with small efficient engines. (I've a 1.8L that pulls 140HP and gets 37MPG combined)
Manuals are more fun, but popping the clutch is not good for them.
Traction control reduces accidents.

Wetzel

[Mini-D67]

Originally Posted by Wetzel

What Saab? My brother had an old Saab 99 for a while. That thing was from 1976 and had so much technology in it. A good car, except his didn't run much.

I believe his is a '78 99... his never runs very well, but it runs, lol... shoulda thrown that part in.

And I didn't mean 4cyl motors aren't powerful, my moms Sunfire is a quick little thing for only having a 2.2l

[coastertux]

I don't have my own car, but when I do drive I drive my dad's 2002 Silver Toyota Camry 4cyl.

[greencactus3]

Originally Posted by Mini-D67

You're obviously talking about a manual... we were discussing autos, as that is what C&D tested.

Heck, I could break the tires (tire?) loose on my firends old Saab 4 banger if I popped the clutch...

wait. where did i say i drove stick? my truck is an auto. once the engine revs up to 5k(in this case with the tires slipping) it automatically goes up a gear. and im talking without neutralbombing or braketorquing.

[lukevanoort]

Well no wheelspin isn't what you want either. If I remember my drag racing basics, 16% wheelspin is ideal for accelerating.
The 1.8L four in my grandmothers corolla easily breaks traction and it far zippier than the other cars I've driven. (1.4L 4cyl, 2.4L 4cyl, 3.0L V6) Nowadays head design, good programming, porting, and forced induction change power more than displacement or cylinders. A Euro Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VIII MR FQ-400 makes four hundred horsepower off a 2.0L four. A Toyota/Lexus 2GR-FSE 3.5L V6 makes 300 hp. A Honda K20A makes 220 hp of a naturally aspirated 2.0L four. Some of the old B series Honas made 200hp off 1.8L. A 2JZ-GTE 3.0L straight six makes 300hp. A Honda C32B makes 288hp on a 3.2L V6. Subaru STi 2.5L boxer four 300hp. The previously mentioned S2000's F20 (or is it F22, I can never remember) makes 200hp. The 2.3L mazda MZR (as seen in the mazdaspeed 6) makes 276hp. A Dodge SRT-4 makes something in the neighborhood of 240hp on 2.4L. For reference a 2005 Ford Mustang GT makes 300hp off of a 4.6L V8. And, yes clutch dropworks, unless you're driving a JDM Honda Civic/Integra DC5 Type-R with their ultralight flywheel. (If you are all should worship you)

[greencactus3]

Originally Posted by lukevanoort

Well no wheelspin isn't what you want either. If I remember my drag racing basics, 16% wheelspin is ideal for accelerating.

wait really? thats curious. i thought zero wheel spin would be best. can you explain in more detail about that 16%? 16% of what? and when? throughout the whole run? and 16% of the tire's tangential velocity is lost before the ground pushes back? or 16% of the whole run (1/4mile?) is done with the tires slipping? (including chirping in each gear?)

[Aburame Shino]

What I drive really depends where I'm going. If I'm staying within the city limits I drive a 1990 Buick Century. If I'm going to travel outside of the state with friends/family for whatever reason (M:TG tourneys, vacations, etc.) then we take the Wumpus (a.k.a. my mom's GMC Savana Passenger).

[lukevanoort]

Originally Posted by greencactus3

wait really? thats curious. i thought zero wheel spin would be best. can you explain in more detail about that 16%? 16% of what? and when? throughout the whole run? and 16% of the tire's tangential velocity is lost before the ground pushes back? or 16% of the whole run (1/4mile?) is done with the tires slipping? (including chirping in each gear?)

It is, but since people aren't psychically connected to the axel, if you shoot for zero, you go really slow and don't put down much power and your engine can bog off the line. Too much, and, well, your tires don't last too long and it's slow. A little above lets you keep putting down plenty of power without losing too mcuh too wheelspin. I think the 16% means either it is at 116% of it's torque holding capacity, or it's rotating 116% as fast as is needed to to go the speed it's going. I heard the number from a friend that does a lot of drag racing, but I didn't ask for clarification, since I wasn't interested due to the fact that he races trucks (a blue S10 with a V8 swap) which I don't really care about.

[greencactus3]

Originally Posted by lukevanoort

It is, but since people aren't psychically connected to the axel, if you shoot for zero, you go really slow and don't put down much power and your engine can bog off the line. Too much, and, well, your tires don't last too long and it's slow. A little above lets you keep putting down plenty of power without losing too mcuh too wheelspin. I think the 16% means either it is at 116% of it's torque holding capacity, or it's rotating 116% as fast as is needed to to go the speed it's going. I heard the number from a friend that does a lot of drag racing, but I didn't ask for clarification, since I wasn't interested due to the fact that he races trucks (a blue S10 with a V8 swap) which I don't really care about.

hm. dont understand your part about people not connected to the axle but i guess the no boggin kinda makes sense. well different rear ends kinda help that. but say you dont care how fast your tires wear.... is it still 16%? can you see if you can ask more detail about that from your friend? im curious.
and ooooh. a blue truck. $@#$@#$@#$@#. if i had a blue truck id be SO much faster
what'd he stick in there? 350 like everyone else?

[lukevanoort]

Originally Posted by greencactus3

hm. dont understand your part about people not connected to the axle but i guess the no boggin kinda makes sense. well different rear ends kinda help that. but say you dont care how fast your tires wear.... is it still 16%? can you see if you can ask more detail about that from your friend? im curious.
and ooooh. a blue truck. $@#$@#$@#$@#. if i had a blue truck id be SO much faster
what'd he stick in there? 350 like everyone else?

What I meant was that you aren't connected to the drivetrain, so you can't correct for wheelspin and such instantly.
If I see my friend, otherwise known as the "Jolly Redneck" (I won't reveal his real name), I'll ask him. But, I switched from Orange High School (where the robotics team and the jolly redneck are) to Riverside High, which are in two different counties. I still go to Orange for Robotics, but I'm not there that often. My guess is that he was told/read this and can't really explain it too well, since he, well, probably doesn't know much physics. I imagine this varies depending on the tires, engine, flywheel, car mass, and, clearly, if the car has traction control. This has someone say 10%, so I guess opinions vary.

[greencactus3]

i see. hmm. maybe ill look into it more when im bored... right now i gotta study for a test.....