Does anyone else think this game will not be as good as I imagine it might be?

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by MattB703

It does seam like there are a lot of opportunities for 5 point penalties though.

I do wonder if the robot breaks down when it's offside would they continue to slam it with 5 point penalties? Even if it never moved form it's starting point on the field.
That could be a bit of a concern.

[phrontist]

This is the best game ever. By far. All future games should emulate this one.

Dave, or any GDC members, if we meet this season, krispy kreme's on me.

[mechanicalbrain]

Originally Posted by Ryan Meador

Also, having robots unfold to more than their starting height has always been a key feature of every game, including last year. I believe that games that virtually require teams to make robots that get taller incite a lot more clever engineering than one where the robot not only is the height it starts at, but also can't tip over on its side to drive.

I suspect the reason to this is because it's the only way to keep the fun in the game. When they started to explain the game my initial reaction was 'You know you could use a arm to just dump balls in that hole!" But really, whats the fun in that? I mean the main point of FIRST, and they do an amazing job of it, is to tease out that creativity to acomplish a completely unique way. Last year projectiles were illegal and one could say it stopped a lot of clever engineering this year projectiles are legal and vertical extension is illegal, like everything in engineering it's a tradeoff. Besides I think to give a team a completely new problem that doesn't have a simple solution inspires more creativity then to let them build on something they have done for two years straight. It keeps us out of a rut and is guarenteed to put gray in your hair!

Originally Posted by Ryan Meador

Another thing FIRST has done well in the past but seems to be lacking this year is autonomous tasks. There's really only one autonomous goal this year: score the most points.

I think you will find this years autonomous more challenging then any previous year. I think their is something in this game that has failed to be mentioned. This game is unique in that it requires a completeley new type of autonomous to really suceed. The driver, since it's not practical for him to do it him/herself, has to depend on programming in game to control a key feature of the robot. Think of it as a hybridization of the traditional autonomous/player game. You see it a little in some automatic functions involving simple sensors but not to this extent.

Their are other aspects to that are not readily apparent that makes this game a step up from what ive normally done. And they also managed to include some old problems like visability (im thinking of seeing if you are beyond, on, or over the white boundary line) that are present every year. I think this is going to be a good year all in all. Ill chip in for Krispy Kremes too!

[Not2B]

Well, here's an outsiders opinion...

Every year, I take my wife to dinner at Applebee's on Kickoff night, and explain the game.

After I explained the game, she said that either she is getting smarter, or the game is easy to understand.

She had NEVER understood the game this quickly. Never. Ever. She said it should be fun to watch - like a cross between soccer and basketball.

This could have wider viewer appeal than past games.

Giddy up!

[killerofkiller]

lol yeah this game is alot easier to explain then a "three demensional version of Tic-Tac-Toe played with Tetrahedral shaped objects" or a game full of 5 point balls, 2x multiplier balls automatic ball dumps and a pullup bar...

[Joe Johnson]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

I do wonder if the robot breaks down when it's offside would they continue to slam it with 5 point penalties? Even if it never moved form it's starting point on the field.
That could be a bit of a concern.

I assume that you are talking about the BACKBOT requirement.

Let me say that I have NOT read the rules, but from how my daughter explained it to me, there is not a requirement for a particular robot be the BACKBOT but just that an ALLIANCE has to have a BACKBOT.

So it seems to me that the ALLIANCE would have to make a decision to keep playing defense with 3 robots (1 dead plus two alive) and racking up the penalties as a result or putting a live robot as the BACKBOT and doing their best to defend with only 1 live robot (and one dead one).

Joe J

[Chuck Glick]

no, i think that the game is an awesome idea, easy concept but a serious challenge for design. also since its so simple even rookie teams like mine have a chance.

[sgsdragons]

Hello All,
All I can say for this game is WOW!!!

I think that this year is defenetly going to challenge us all. The game is simple to explain and understand, but from a designer stand-point, this is going to be a tough one. There are many different things that you have to decide on. for example:

1. Defensive or offensive?
2. Shooting or pushing?
3. What type of atonomious do you want to use?
4. How do you collect balls effiecently?
5. And the big one: To store balls or not to store balls? That is the question(Hey I know it's cheesy, but i had to say it and plus I'm working off of about 4 hours of sleep.)

Anyways, I think that it will defenetly test all of our abilities to design, drive, and stratigize. I am really looking forward to it.

Now off to disecting that manual!!!

Josh
SGSDragons
Team Driver and Designer

[Eldarion]

I think this game probably has a lot of hidden design challenges. Time will tell...

Originally Posted by killerofkiller

lol yeah this game is alot easier to explain then a "three demensional version of Tic-Tac-Toe played with Tetrahedral shaped objects" or a game full of 5 point balls, 2x multiplier balls automatic ball dumps and a pullup bar...

Yeah, but what's geekier?

[sgsdragons]

Yeah, but what's geekier?

LOL, I agree

Josh
SGSDragons
Team Driver and Designer

[Ryan Foley]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

I do wonder if the robot breaks down when it's offside would they continue to slam it with 5 point penalties? Even if it never moved form it's starting point on the field.
That could be a bit of a concern.

The rules state that the alliance can switch back bots at any time, so long as one robot is fully behind the line, so to avoid penalties, the alliance could send the another robot on-sides, although it would reduce the defense to one robot, it's better than a lot of penalties.

Perhaps disabling the robot might be a way around the penalties.

[Tom Saxton]

Originally Posted by Ryan Foley

Perhaps disabling the robot might be a way around the penalties.

If disabling a robot avoids off-side penalties, then an alliance could drive one robot in front of one of the corner goals, disable it, and then have three defenders.

If a robot dies in play, the alliance should lose the use of that robot, not get a free substitution.

[Tristan Lall]

Originally Posted by Joe Johnson

ILet me say that I have NOT read the rules, but from how my daughter explained it to me, there is not a requirement for a particular robot be the BACKBOT but just that an ALLIANCE has to have a BACKBOT.

So it seems to me that the ALLIANCE would have to make a decision to keep playing defense with 3 robots (1 dead plus two alive) and racking up the penalties as a result or putting a live robot as the BACKBOT and doing their best to defend with only 1 live robot (and one dead one).

Correct, if they know in advance that they'll have a dead robot. What if they forget to turn it on, and the field crew doesn't catch their error for them? What if they're in the middle position, straddling the line when that happens? Isn't that -70 points = (5 sec grace + 7 × 5 sec intervals) × 2 periods, at -5 per interval?

Painful!

Edit: Ryan's right. They send another teammate over to sit back, or alternatively, shove it into the right zone.

[AmyPrib]

My initial reactions, as it turned into a more positive thread:

- Field is empty!
- Expecting less diversity in robot design than say in '04, but we'll see.
- "Relatively" one-dimensional/one-tasked game
- Hope they put netting around the field!
- Wow that ramp is steep.
- The camera's back. I think that's good, going for multiple year usage so people really get a chance to use it.
- This game is spectator and media friendly. With the likeness of basketball, football, hockey, sports, non-FIRSTers might get even more excited.

After Reading the Manual:
- The game rules are well-written compared to previous years! Very clear and understandable, with a few minor exceptions (that I've seen discussed). So far, I find very little room for loop-holes and confusion if you read them thoroughly.
- It seems like the refs job might be slightly less stressful, as there shouldn't be too many discretion or opinion calls needed and they can focus on robot position and interaction.
- The points/penalties are balanced! Woohoo!
- Pretty much all the penalties are the same amt, 5pts! Woohoo!
- Unlimited scoring! I hope those sensors work!
- They have obviously taken into account (while writing the rules) to cover and clearly state their intent of a rule to minimize the amount of "lawyering" that can be done.
- They have addressed many of the confusions and complaints from previous years (in game section at least).
- Wow, they went to serpentine alliance selections (1 to 8 pick, then back down 8 to 1 pick). Will be interesting.
- Size restrictions - mixed feelings. Sorta relates to the less diversity note. I am amazed at some of the things teams come up with when unfolded, expanded, etc. But this will definitely challenge creativity in design.

They aren't grouped in good or bad. In general I think this will be a great game and we'll see how it turns out. I still contend the '04 game itself (aside from rule/penalty debates) has been the most exciting yet. We'll see if this overrides that.

[Bharat Nain]

Originally Posted by Ryan Meador

Wow, I'm totally shocked to see so many people who support this game. I don't like this year's game for the same reasons I didn't like last year's game. At both kickoffs, I remember sitting there thinking "there's only one way to score". The hallmark of nearly all FIRST games except the past two has been multiple ways to score - not just multiple places, but multiple objects or tasks.

You are right, there is just one way to score and that is to score balls. However, unlike last years game, you can herd balls much easier then you can herd tetras. Teams with a stable drive base can score a good load of points. Thats why this game is so much better. I also disliked the fact that there is only one way to score in triple play but this years game is much more satisfying.