Rookie Questions

[Bill Moore]

Originally Posted by 1robotmom

RELAX, all! This contest is to learn and TO HAVE FUN! Remember, ALL the teams were rookies once! You'll get there! You've made a good start by finding and getting on chiefdelphi.com. Just roam the FIRST website too and you will get lots of help. The manual and lots of other helps are online there! Team MOE has a great website too!

Thank you for the compliment!
Rookies may find MOEmentum FYI (First-Year Infobase) to be helpful. This is a weekly plan to assist new teams (or any team) as they go through the season. There are many other items that need to be coordinated besides building the robot, and the FYI helps identify them.
MOEmentum FYI will be updated weekly as the season progresses, so you will see a divider between this years updates and last years. Reading ahead to see what your team will be working through is encouraged.

And to 1337pcgamer and AceOfSpades -- Keep asking the questions; there's always some folks here who are willing to help answer them.

[TheAnsweris42]

Here's a tip to the rookies, from a rookie - Curb your teammates enthusiasm for complicated ideas. This week is starting to leave me a little bit worried that a big portion of the team's lust for a 'cool looking' design that will 'pick up chicks' (don't ask) is going to leave us with a box of parts on ship day

[KathieK]

Hello rookies and welcome to the insanity of the Build Season!
You will find that it is nearly impossible to keep up with the amount of threads and posts that are put here during the Build Season. ChiefDelphi has a great system of organizing all the threads into different areas, including Technical areas, and by using the search function or by browsing through those areas, you may well find the answers to your questions.
Part of the reason you want to become familiar with the manual is that it is the official FIRST document. Answers posted here on ChiefDelphi are unofficial answers and should be taken as such. Lots of great discussion and debate goes on in these threads and you will make many friends over the next few months on ChiefDelphi.
All team members should be familiar with the game manual (including the non-technical members like me) so they understand the game, and so they can accurately answer questions about the game and robot to judges, media, and the public at competitions. Each team should have at least one rules expert who knows the game inside and out and keeps up with the Q& A forums and the Rules Updates that FIRST puts out throughout the season. Many teams quiz their members on the rules and game manual prior to attending competitions.
Good luck to you all this season!

[KenWittlief]

Originally Posted by TheAnsweris42

Here's a tip to the rookies, from a rookie - Curb your teammates enthusiasm for complicated ideas. This week is starting to leave me a little bit worried that a big portion of the team's lust for a 'cool looking' design that will 'pick up chicks' (don't ask) is going to leave us with a box of parts on ship day

the way to make sure you show up at your regional with a functioning robot is to follow a strict schedule. By the end of the day friday your team should have analyzed the game to calculate all the scoring possibilties, and come up with a primary scoring and defensive strategy.

So by saturday morning your team is in agreement with the big doubleyou: WHAT your robot shall do. I would not put more than one or two functions on your robot, for example: push balls into the corner goals, and be able to climb up on the ramp at the end of the match. Or toss balls into the center goal, and be able to play defense on the corner goals (whatever your team decides).

When you know the WHAT part then you can brainstorm the best way for a robot to do those things: the HOW (the design concept). By the end of the second week your team should be in agreement on the HOW, for example: two wheel drive, or 4 wheel drive, or tank treads + an arm to pick up balls and push them in the goal, or a snow plow blade, or a kicker.

then you have 4 weeks left to start building and fabricating the parts, and assembling it.

If you dont take these two steps now, your team will be running in several directions, starting one idea, then getting a 'better' idea 3 weeks from now and starting over. You cant let that happen.

follow a schedule. Once you know the WHAT, that part of the design cycle is over, and you focus on the HOW. Once you choose the HOW that part is over and you focus on fabrication, assembly, test and driver practice.

[DonRotolo]

Originally Posted by TheAnsweris42

Here's a tip to the rookies, from a rookie - Curb your teammates enthusiasm for complicated ideas. This week is starting to leave me a little bit worried that a big portion of the team's lust for a 'cool looking' design that will 'pick up chicks' (don't ask) is going to leave us with a box of parts on ship day

I fully agree. The team will learn just as much with a very poorly performing robot that actually passes inspection, as from a championship robot.

Maybe more.

You see, the point of FIRST isn't the robot. It's Gracious Professionalism. Build something moderately simple, but something that not only works BUT your drivers can actually practice with for a week, yes a whole week.

Ken's comments are excellent, bring them to the team and get everyone to agree on that approach. If you have team members just sitting around with nothing to do, then you need a taskmaster, someone who hands out "job sheets" with a specific task and deadline on it. All you (don't) need is a bunch of back-seat engineers who know little but give big advice, causing confusion and wasted effort.

Kinda like what we did last year. We had one hour exactly of practice before the FedEx truck showed up, and it showed at regionals.

If you can't get everyone to agree, there needs to be a "Mayor" who recognized when the discussion is not being productive, and either steers it forwards again or, if necessary, terminates it. A smaller group may be needed to make a decision.

Very best of luck, don't hesitate to ASK questions, but puhleeze Read The Manual and whatever else is available.

Don

[1337pcgamer]

I did not know that by posting a new thread it was a problem...
In fact I have had a fairly known forum about computer/technology for a couple years. I know the rounds. I realize you have to search. But sometimes you start new threads, that's why a forum is what it is. Next time I think about posting a topic I will look for it first and not post anything. I guess it's up to the "senior" members to decide which threads are acceptable and which are not. As for discussion of scaring rookies away, well I think that just happened.

[Bill Moore]

Originally Posted by 1337pcgamer

I did not know that by posting a new thread it was a problem...
In fact I have had a fairly known forum about computer/technology for a couple years. I know the rounds. I realize you have to search. But sometimes you start new threads, that's why a forum is what it is. Next time I think about posting a topic I will look for it first and not post anything. I guess it's up to the "senior" members to decide which threads are acceptable and which are not. As for discussion of scaring rookies away, well I think that just happened.

Actually, it's been an interesting occurrence. I don't recall as many "harsh" responses to rookie posts in the past as I have this year. Certainly there weren't in 2002, or I would have just dumped such an elitist group. I would be shocked to hear some of these responses or attitudes at a competition. Helping rookies learn how to do things properly is professional, doing it without an attitude is gracious. It is incidents like this that should make us reflect, "How much do we truly live GP, and how much do we just use it when it's convenient?"

[RoboMom]

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ghlight=manual

is a great resource to help search the manual for specific questions.

Email is a hard medium of communication sometimes. "Tones" can be misinterpreted, often when one is in a hurry. It happens to me all the time, and I end up saying "I'm sorry" at least once every day.
It's a new day. Let perceived slights and miscommunication go; and let's all try to be a little more gentle with each other. I've also learned many times that the old adage "if you don't have something nice (or helpful) to say, then don't say it." Just let it go and move on to the next thing in your busy lives. Sometimes what makes you feel better, makes the others feel pretty crappy.

Think before you press that "post quick reply" button. It really should read "post a thoughtful reply " button.

This is supposed to be hard work AND fun. Let's get on with the fun part.
I wish you all well and hope those designs are getting nailed down on paper (or CAD or whatever) in the near future.
p.s. this is what my old team would have called the "mom-talk."

[KenWittlief]

Originally Posted by Don Rotolo

If you can't get everyone to agree, there needs to be a "Mayor" who recognized when the discussion is not being productive, and either steers it forwards again or, if necessary, terminates it. A smaller group may be needed to make a decision.

excellent point! Teenagers think everything should be 'fair' and every organization should be a democracy, where everyone gets to vote.

Design-by-committee always results in a system that attempts to do everything, is too big, takes too long, is too expensive, and worst of all, it ends up doing nothing very well.

Every engineering design team that I have been on over the last 21 years had a lead engineer or project engineer who had the final authority over the whole project. You earn that position with years of experience and excellent performance.

Implementation details are left to the rest of the project team, or to individuals who are working on specific subsystems.

As I said before, you have to follow a schedule and meet your milestones, because ship-date is a milestone that will not move, and there is no partial credit (you cant ship half a robot).

As each milestone comes, your lead engineer has to make the final call "this is what we are doing, now lets move on to the next part of the design cycle".

Rather than putting things to a vote, there should be a process for evaluating each idea or concept, a way to put numerical ratings on each aspect of a design, and when you add the + and - columns up, the answer is right there. No need to vote. For engineering projects there are reasons why the best answer is the best answer, not feelings, not pride, not ego.

If you cant show the numbers that support a decision then you havent thought things through in a logical manner. (this has been discussed in other threads).

[1337pcgamer]

let's not get in to the "teen" talk please...

Originally Posted by KenWittlief

excellent point! Teenagers think everything should be 'fair' and every organization should be a democracy, where everyone gets to vote.

Design-by-committee always results in a system that attempts to do everything, is too big, takes too long, is too expensive, and worst of all, it ends up doing nothing very well.

Every engineering design team that I have been on over the last 21 years had a lead engineer or project engineer who had the final authority over the whole project. You earn that position with years of experience and excellent performance.

Implementation details are left to the rest of the project team, or to individuals who are working on specific subsystems.

As I said before, you have to follow a schedule and meet your milestones, because ship-date is a milestone that will not move, and there is no partial credit (you cant ship half a robot).

As each milestone comes, your lead engineer has to make the final call "this is what we are doing, now lets move on to the next part of the design cycle".

Rather than putting things to a vote, there should be a process for evaluating each idea or concept, a way to put numerical ratings on each aspect of a design, and when you add the + and - columns up, the answer is right there. No need to vote. For engineering projects there are reasons why the best answer is the best answer, not feelings, not pride, not ego.

If you cant show the numbers that support a decision then you havent thought things through in a logical manner. (this has been discussed in other threads).