Loose Balls

[Rick TYler]

Will loose balls be a significant factor in this game? Please share your thoughts.

[Jonathan Norris]

I feel that It will be very important, because you will not have to drive 50+ feet to restock your supply of balls. Human loading will not be as efficient as it may seem, most likely longer than last year (yes they are very different).

[Shu Song]

I must disagree with the above point. Teams will try to make their bots as basket like as possible to catch more balls thrown at it. If the bot is right up against the player station, it's almost a 100% chance to get it in the bot. There will be minimal balls on the ground from teams trying to get it to their bot. Throwing the ball to the vicinity of the robot and having it suck the ball up is much more time consuming than just throwing it <i>in</i> the robot.

So with minimal balls from misthrows to the robot, the only other way a ball can end up on the ground is if a robot misses a shot. I acutally expect a lot of those shots to miss. But the defence will likely be on ball collection mode as well as obstructing other robots. So a whole mechanism to quickly pick up balls from the ground doesn't seem cost:score (that's a ratio) effective.

So I dare say that a few of the better bots will NOT have floor loaders this year.

[Alekat]

I(as human player) plan on spending most of my time scoring points, not loading my robot. They can pick up my missed points and shoot them.

[Jon K.]

Originally Posted by Shu Song

I must disagree with the above point. Teams will try to make their bots as basket like as possible to catch more balls thrown at it. If the bot is right up against the player station, it's almost a 100% chance to get it in the bot. There will be minimal balls on the ground from teams trying to get it to their bot. Throwing the ball to the vicinity of the robot and having it suck the ball up is much more time consuming than just throwing it <i>in</i> the robot.

Might I just note however, that isn't quite as true as you may think. Upon a close inspection of the rules it states in rule

<G33> HUMAN PLAYER Shooting Zone - The HUMAN PLAYER must remain behind the STARTING LINE
and within the ALLIANCE ZONE when they are entering a ball onto the field. Each violation will result
in a 5-point penalty.

so you start out at least 4 feet away from the back of the Polycarb and players station. Thusly making it a very difficult shot to just lob into a bot next to the players station. This will definitely require a lot of work and practice to achieve.

[Kelvin Ng]

Hmm, although I agree with Shu about there not being many ball missing while loading from the corner goals, there may be a problem with tossing the balls to the backbot.

supposing one of the offensive robots successfully unloads all its balls into the corner goal. The human players may decide to toss these balls to their backbot. However, the robot that has just unloaded has several options:

a) play offense and gaurd their shooter so they may score without interference
b) play defense on the backbot and prevent it from loading balls.

if the backbot is left alone (I'm assuming this won't happen for very long, or very often), it may be possible for human players to toss balls in attempts to load their backbots. However much training they receive and how accurate their shots become, loading the backbot by throwing balls in its general idea will become exceedingly difficult if it is gaurded. If the backbot is gaurded, there may be alot of missed balls after all. A way to get around this would be:

a) have a ball collection device
or
b) load a defending robot, then have it swap spots with the backbot.

[dhitchco]

How important will it be to design a bot to pick-up loose balls? Ask yourself, how many loose balls will there be in a match? Loose balls come from the following:

1) They fall out of robots that have been pre-stored with (up to) 10 balls at the beginning of the match. This is not a likely source of loose balls even if a robot gets jostled.

2) They fall onto the field from failed shots at the upper 3-point goal. This is likely to be the biggest source of loose balls to be gobbled up

3) The fall onto the field in the process of your bot trying to push/dump them into the side goals. This also is a high-probability source for loose balls

4) The fall onto the field after being put into play by the three human players (either missing a side-goal shot or missing their own 'bot refill). Also a pretty high probability of happening.

5) They are put onto the field by the field judges after they have bounced/flown out of the field. This could be caused by any number of random events. My best guess is that at least 10 balls per match will get re-introduced to the field of play by the judges....

So, overall, I'll guess that any design which does NOT take into account the need to pick-up loose balls on the field will always have to make a LONG trip home to be refilled and/or will simply be missing out on the need to bve a "hunter/gatherer".....

[Kevin Sevcik]

The way I see it is that if your entire alliance depends on balls from the human players, then you've pretty much resigned yourself to playing catch up. Every ball you have in your player station is a point the other team has scored on you, after all. If the other alliance exclusively shoots three pointers, then the best you can do is match their points. Hrm. I should make a note of this if we're against an alliance than can't scoop. Should just concentrate on hitting every 3 we fire and starving them....

[Stu Bloom]

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik

The way I see it is that if your entire alliance depends on balls from the human players, then you've pretty much resigned yourself to playing catch up. Every ball you have in your player station is a point the other team has scored on you, after all. If the other alliance exclusively shoots three pointers, then the best you can do is match their points. Hrm. I should make a note of this if we're against an alliance than can't scoop. Should just concentrate on hitting every 3 we fire and starving them....

Well good luck with that strategy ...

We're thinking with the defensive interaction allowed this year and all the other factors feeding into a consistent aiming and firing mechanism it won't be a simple task to routinely make those 3 pointers ...

[vic burg]

I think that it is semi-important.... not having fully thought out stratigies MYSELF, but having read the rules, it is critical in a small degree... but i think as the build season goes on, it may be more imparirative to collect them. But um, yeah.... as f right now, not as much as it may be....

[Paul Copioli]

I voted somewhat important.

I say one robot per alliance needs to pick up from the floor. So 1 in 3 need to pick up from the floor ... we will just not be that 1. So all of you that think it is important, I thank-you in advance if you are our partners.

[Ian Curtis]

Originally Posted by Paul Copioli

I voted somewhat important.

I say one robot per alliance needs to pick up from the floor. So 1 in 3 need to pick up from the floor ... we will just not be that 1. So all of you that think it is important, I thank-you in advance if you are our partners.

*Note to self* Design awesome ball picker-upper, make it to the championships, and end up in the same division as the ThunderChickens. *end note*

I think that there will be lots of balls on the floor, especially at the regionals. I'm going to assume that 1/2 of the robots at a given first week regional (which my team goes to) will be able to shoot. At a fifty team regional I'd say that there will be 2 robots that can shoot 7/8 of the balls they shoot, 8 that can make 1/2 of the balls they shoot, and 15 teams that have a 1/4 accuracy. In a match with the 2 great shooters and 2 medium shooters, that's 25 balls on the ground in a match. Picking up balls will be extremely important. If 1 robot per alliance can pick them up and transfer them to an open hopper quickly, as Paul suggested, I would say your okay, but that brings up the question, if they can hold up your ball collector, can they starve you of balls?

[Shu Song]

Originally Posted by Paul Copioli

I voted somewhat important.

I say one robot per alliance needs to pick up from the floor. So 1 in 3 need to pick up from the floor ... we will just not be that 1. So all of you that think it is important, I thank-you in advance if you are our partners.

Thats's a great way to put it

[Kelvin Ng]

Originally Posted by iCurtis

If 1 robot per alliance can pick them up and transfer them to an open hopper quickly, as Paul suggested, I would say your okay, but that brings up the question, if they can hold up your ball collector, can they starve you of balls?

That is an awesome strategy. This game allows for such awesome strategy, its amazing. Wouldn't making a ball collecting/shooting robot be too complex it may break down too easily or just plain not work?

Should shooter bots incorporate a hopper that allows alliance gatherers to unload in their bots? Should gathering robots have a mechanism to unload balls into shooting robots?

Advantages: Gatherers do their thing, shooter's don't have to load themselves or run back to the alliance ball corrals.

Disadvantages: BIGGEST: with one but not the other, this strategy fails. Easily defended.

Verdict: A nice idea, but unrealistic.

Do you think that most robots will be:

Gatherers/Unloaders or Shooters but not both?

[(InsrtNameHere)]

I think its verry important to collect balls off of the surface. Especialy if you have a shooter. So you can feed the balls into the shooter somehow.