Mentors

[haywirerobotics]

I was wondering if any teams out there had any mentor contracts? Because we are havign problems with out mentors "taking over". so we are looking for a contract to keep them from doing that, if anyone can hep, plz let me know.

[KathieK]

Hmm. It sounds like you are experiencing some problems with the expectations of the students and mentors. From your post I would assume the students are feeling as though they are not being included in the design/build/decision making process. This is a team organizational issue and I suggest you search through the Team Organization forum - there have been similar threads posted there. Creating a team handbook which outlines your organization's structure, expectations rules, consequences, decision-making process, will help the team focus on the work to be done and not on the conflicts which may be occurring. Several teams have posted their handbooks in the White papers section.

[MChapman]

Well recently we just kinda switched our team into the hands of student leaders because that's how it was on our team for awhile. We didnt have contracts but we did talk with our mentors on how we would like to be more involved rather then just sitting and watching them do work. So we ended up coming to an agreement an now things are working great. Good Luck!

[haywirerobotics]

Originally Posted by MChapman

Well recently we just kinda switched our team into the hands of student leaders because that's how it was on our team for awhile. We didnt have contracts but we did talk with our mentors on how we would like to be more involved rather then just sitting and watching them do work. So we ended up coming to an agreement an now things are working great. Good Luck!

we tried talking to them but it kinda didn't work...does anyone have a contract? Our teacher wants me to find one, i tried writing my own, but it was kind...how do u say...in need of improvment???

[Mike]

To be fairly blunt, I think what you are doing is rude. I would try talking to them again. Get all the mentors in a room, along with a teacher that supports your side and ask them what they expect to get out of the experience, how they believe it should be run, etc.

Since they're volunteers, the idea of a contract is no more than a fancy promise. There's no penalty on a contract breach, do you want to sue a volunteer?

They are volunteering their time to help you. If I was putting hours and hours everyday into helping teach people and they suddenly presented me with a contract, I would be highly offended.

If it comes down to it and the mentors just will not change, you have to give them an ultimatum. This will have to be a very very last resort kinda thing.

Good luck with whatever you do,
Mike

[haywirerobotics]

Originally Posted by Mike

To be fairly blunt, I think what you are doing is rude. I would try talking to them again. Get all the mentors in a room, along with a teacher that supports your side and ask them what they expect to get out of the experience, how they believe it should be run, etc.

Since they're volunteers, the idea of a contract is no more than a fancy promise. There's no penalty on a contract breach, do you want to sue a volunteer?

They are volunteering their time to help you. If I was putting hours and hours everyday into helping teach people and they suddenly presented me with a contract, I would be highly offended.

If it comes down to it and the mentors just will not change, you have to give them an ultimatum. This will have to be a very very last resort kinda thing.

Good luck with whatever you do,
Mike

i don't think it's rude, it says that in the mentor handbook!!!

[Steve W]

Originally Posted by haywirerobotics

i don't think it's rude, it says that in the mentor handbook!!!

Says what in the mentor handbook? I believe that what he said was rude was going on CD and saying that the mentors are doing a bad job.

As for a contract, I would suggest that you write up an "understanding". What works for one team does not work for another.

Why are you saying that they are taking over? What do you feel is a good % for each side?

[Ken Leung]

For you to get the advice you need, perhaps you should explain your situation a little better. Not a lot of people on this forum know about your team, so the only judgements we can make are quick, harsh ones. We have no idea who's right and who's wrong without more details.

Explain your situation more thoroughtly, let us understand what exactly is going on for both side of your team, and maybe there is something better than giving you an example contract to help with your team's situation.

By the way, if the mentors didn't listen to you while you talk to them before, what makes you think they are going to sign the contract? Doesn't make sense to me.

[KenWittlief]

There is one prime-directive for the mentors on each team (straight from DK): Dont Let Your Team Fail.

Simply: dont let your team go down a path that ends up at a regional with a non-functioning, inspection failing, half finished, or otherwise unusable robot.

Its up to the mentors to make certain the team does not fail. For the students this program is a learning experience. The mentors are accountable to people, the sponsors, their employers, their managers. They will be the ones who have to stand infront of the people who funded your team, supplied mentors, supplied facilities and equipment and explain why your team showed up with a robot that could not move or participate in the games?

If you feel like the mentors are taking over the design and fabrication then I would venture this is the most likely reason.

[Stu Bloom]

WOW ... this is a tough one ...

I would have a HUGE problem if "presented with a contract to sign" to continue volunteering my time to my team. I already give up significant vacation time, family time, and time with my friends in order to serve as a mentor for my team ("my" not as in ownership, but as in membership). I also spend a significant amount of my own money each year on various odds and ends, including travel, to help support the team. A contract would be taken as a slap in the face.

Of course I would like to think that I would listen, and comply, if our students approached me with a request to be more involved. We do struggle with that each year, mostly because many of our students have minimal knowledge or experience in many areas ... and FIRST is not supposed to be an educational program, but an inspirational one. Don't get me wrong, I do my best to teach, but I am not a teacher (I don't envy them at all).

The bottom line for me is that I think your teacher(s) should be "running" the team and defining everyone's roles and responsibilities. If the expectations are clearly laid out FOR EVERYONE this issue might go away.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Haywire,
I don't have a written contract but I do have an understanding with the students on the electrical sub team. If I should forget my place and a student feels they should be doing the work, I expect them to politely ask me to step aside. If I don't take the hint then they should use their elbow.
This is a complex issue and it may be difficult for mentors to simply step aside especially when they are employees of the sponsoring organization. You can form a compromise with a little discussion. You will learn more and your mentors will gain more confidance in your abilities, when you work side by side. This may not be what you had hoped for but it does cover most of the bases. The mentors will see that the work is moving at the expected pace, and they will be training someone who they can trust to be there when they cannot. Although you will see many posts from students who think that the robot should be completely student built, I, as a mentor, believe you will learn more and have a better experience when we work together. We are on a team after all. I am proud of my students and the relationship we have as a team.

[Not2B]

Sounds like you need a sit-down kind of conversation. In other words, figure out what the student expectations and the mentor expectations are. That should help. Also, a team handbook and/or misson statement should help out some, as long as people follow it. Our team is rather informal, and our team handbook reflects that (it's only 6 pages.) Doesn't need to be huge.

Also, keep in mind that your mentors might be trying to teach you, and not take over. They might be having so much fun that they don't realize what everyone is feeling. Talk it over, and it should help.

It also helps to remind everyone of the team goals. Example - our team makes it well known that our goal is to teach stuff, even if it means not winning. But sometimes we need to remind everyone that winning isn't everything - but it's a nice reward.

[Rick TYler]

Originally Posted by KenWittlief

If you feel like the mentors are taking over the design and fabrication then I would venture this is the most likely reason.

I agree with Ken, and would add that the second most-likely reason is that we are just overage 17-year-olds who think this is just as cool as the students do. Sometimes, we get carried away...

Sorry about that.

[Marjory Frosty]

I am a mentor for my old team. I came back after my senior year to help out. Mr. Martus set up guide lines for whom ever wanted to help after gradation to follow, and if you don't then you are no longer able to help. It wasn't written so much for me but for kids to come. Me and my husband were the first ones to do this for my team ( we weren't engineers and we weren't teachers) we were just two people wanting to come back and help. The year after that other alumni were wanting to do what we were doing but not with the same order as we had. We know our place and boundary's they didn't so that's what the mentors rule were written for. Four years later me and my husband are still doing it. The biggest thing was pulling yourself away from that student role. The best thing I can tell you is set up guide lines. I know it's volunteer for people to help but kids should suffer because of it. Kids should have an environment to grow in not to be left out in. If you want to see what we have you can e-mail me and i will see if I can get my hands on a copy of it.