New for 2006: 3 Foot Flags on Robots

[Tomasz Bania]

Even though many people read the manual, you could have not noticed this "NEW RULE".

<R13> Robots must use one of the two colored bicycle flags provided at the event queuing location to display
their alliance color (red or blue). Each robot must include a 12 inch long, 1/2” ID PVC tube, capped at the
bottom, permanently mounted on the robot such that when a 3 foot long, 1/4 inch diameter flagpole is inserted
the top of the flagpole is no higher than 6 feet from the ground and the top of the flagpole is at least 12 inches
higher than any other point on the robot (+/- 1/2 inch). The flagpole must be mounted such that it starts the
match, and remains, approximately vertical. The flagpole receptacle must be statically mounted, and not
articulated or actuated.

Think about the problems this can cause!

I heard that this is suppose to " enhance the viewing experience " for the spectators : and make it easier to tell the alliances apart for the judges.

I just call it a " ( Total Nuisance > "!

EDIT: SORRY IF I SOUND THREATENING BUT... I'll post the reason later.

[EricH]

Thank you for bringing this out into the forums and, hopefully, to people's attention.

Incidentally, we still have to carry an LED flasher for diagnostic purposes. Now, this LED flasher has been around for two years already, and it is annoying. In '04: four of them at approximately 90 degrees to each other. In '05: Two of them, at approximately 180 degrees. At about 100', you couldn't see the lights flashing, which meant that you couldn't tell which side the robot was on. Now, with the flags, you can instantly tell if a robot is red or blue, without the primary team identifier being counted in weight. (Before '04, every robot was equipped with a rotaing light for alliance ID. They weighed about a pound.) So, in comparison to previous years, we've got it easy.

[santosh]

I think It may have something to possibly do with the CMU camera since it is emitting a light. but then again those two colors are not green.
I think It will be much easier to identify the alliances. I kinda like it.

[Tomasz Bania]

But even the fact that you can view it easier, it can cause problems, like for example, I don't think that our manipulations team knows that there is going to be a flag hanging around above our manipulations (can't get into details as I don't even know what their doing). If i'm not mistaken, the flag that is 12" by 12" which I might be wrong, but that is pretty big for a robot that can only be 5 foot high. Think about the fact that since the flag can be 6 feet high, some teams will be unloading and the short drivers at the side driver stations won't see anything, which is a violation of the rules. I want to see FIRST dig themselves out of this one.

[Alekat]

Originally Posted by micro3000x

But even the fact that you can view it easier, it can cause problems, like for example, I don't think that our manipulations team knows that there is going to be a flag hanging around above our manipulations (can't get into details as I don't even know what their doing). If i'm not mistaken, the flag that is 12" by 12" which I might be wrong, but that is pretty big for a robot that can only be 5 foot high. Think about the fact that since the flag can be 6 feet high, some teams will be unloading and the short drivers at the side driver stations won't see anything, which is a violation of the rules. I want to see FIRST dig themselves out of this one.

I was a little concerned at first as well. But i have a challenge for you. Take Any FRC robot from a past comp and see if you couldn't find someplace to fix the flag to stick up 12" from the top. I think you'll find it easier than you think. this should be especially easy this year since you don't need clearence for moving arms.

[spamified88]

I don't know why they didn't think of it sooner! ALL, and I mean ALL, of the LEDs on my team's last year's robot fell apart relatively quickly. Also, they were kind of annoying being that you can only see them from about ten feet away, and then there's at least another ten feet to the stands! I guess FIRST learned that lights just weren't cuttin it. Finally, flags make this game seem more sports-like than anything else?

[Andrew Blair]

Err... what? The flag is only 1'x1'! The pole is probably only a fiberglass pole, 1/4" ID! If your view is obstructed that much by a 1' square flag, you probably shouldn't be looking at the flag. And as for the short people not being able to see... Again. If a 1' square flag obstructs a driver's vision, your team needs to find a new driver. Just having your robot there to load, considering a high robot, will probably obstruct your vision more. The only possible trouble I can envision is having to design a 1 degree dead zone so you don't shoot the rod, if you even slew 360 degrees. This will not be an issue.


Example: Take a sheet of white paper, and put it in front of you 4 or five feet. Thats what it'll be like.

[Jeff Rodriguez]

Originally Posted by micro3000x

*clip* If i'm not mistaken, the flag that is 12" by 12" which I might be wrong, but that is pretty big for a robot that can only be 5 foot high. *clip* I want to see FIRST dig themselves out of this one.

Where are you getting this 12"x12" dimension?
As the rule states:

Originally Posted by FRC 2005 Manual Section 5.3.2.3 Rule <R13>

Robots must use one of the two colored bicycle flags provided at the event queuing location to display their alliance color (red or blue). Each robot must include a 12 inch long, 1/2” ID PVC tube, capped at the bottom, permanently mounted on the robot such that when a 3 foot long, 1/4 inch diameter flagpole is inserted the top of the flagpole is no higher than 6 feet from the ground and the top of the flagpole is at least 12 inches higher than any other point on the robot (+/- 1/2 inch). The flagpole must be mounted such that it starts the match, and remains, approximately vertical. The flagpole receptacle must be statically mounted, and not articulated or actuated.

So, the flag will be sticking up a foot higher than any other part or your robot, with a maximum height of 6 feet .5 inches.
It's just a flag, it's not going to obstruct a drivers view anymore than the robot in front of them will.

FIRST doesn't have to dig out of anything, teams have to make a spot for the flag.

[Joe J.]

I like the flags as people have said before the LEDs were had to see at distances. The old lights were big and bulky. I don't think the flags will obstruct vision that much larger robots would do that more.

[Tomasz Bania]

Here is a PM about this topic I had with Henry_222

Smile Re: New for 2006: 3 FOOT FlAgS on ROBOTS!

Quote:
Originally Posted by micro3000x
But even the fact that you can view it easier, it can cause problems, like for example, I don't think that our manipulations team knows that there is going to be a flag hanging around above our manipulations (can't get into details as I don't even know what their doing). If i'm not mistaken, the flag that is 12" by 12" which I might be wrong, but that is pretty big for a robot that can only be 5 foot high. Think about the fact that since the flag can be 6 feet high, some teams will be unloading and the short drivers at the side driver stations won't see anything, which is a violation of the rules. I want to see FIRST dig themselves out of this one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry_222
Hey micro,
I feel that there is a lot of hostility toward FIRST in this post of yours. I don't approve of it as FIRST has an immense task in front of them every year with a new game. I didn't want to take away your rep because you are fairly low in post count and there for low in forum experience. Keep in mind, FIRST's effect on us teens is amazing. I could never ever thank them enough for the effort they put forth.

Happy browsing
-Henry

Quote:
Originally Posted by micro3000x
Yeah, I'm sorry if it sounded threatening as I was busy being angry at something else when I was typing the message. I will fix it promptly.

Sorry,
Micro3000x

P.S. Can I post this P.M. coversation in the thread so I don't have to say sorry to everyone that PM'ed me?



You have my permission; sure, but I think a simple change of wording and an

"EDIT: I re-worded a previous statement due to a conveyed unintentional anger"
/EDIT"

will do.

Happy I could help
-Henry
__________________

[Andrew Blair]

A bicycle flag is relatively small, just a little colored triangle. Maybe they'll be barbie flags...

http://images.google.com/images?q=tb...s/bikeflag.jpg

[EricH]

Guys, the rule says a bicycle flag. All the ones I've seen are about 6" high triangles. Chill. It shouldn't be too hard to find someplace around the 4' point with the given specs.

[Tomasz Bania]

Sorry, the 12" flag is something that I heard someone talk about at a regional.
It's probably more in the area of a six inch triangular flag.

P.S.Going on CD on my cell since i gotta go, i'll still reply though.

[Stats]

but if you think about it you might have some idiot team put the flag in a spot to
use it against other robots to block some other teams launchers and thats could
be a big problem. i found it very easy to identify who is on whos team last year i
think this is just gonna be a big problem the entire compitition............

[Tomasz Bania]

Even though most people don't have a problem with it, some teams will. Some teams are probably looking at this and saying "YOU MUST BE JOKING!"