Beware - transmission output shaft is not 5/8"!

[sanddrag]

Originally Posted by sparksandtabs

Stick it in a drill or drill press(if available) and use sand paper on that, then it is an easy 5 minute project.

Ah yes. The wonderful makeshift vertical lathe. We've done this a couple times to get things to fit. Just keep it limited to sandpaper and emory cloth. Another favorite improper use of tools is using a precision vice in place of an arbor press.

[Alekat]

This is pure genious by FIRST. They plant this seed of frustation in us over our outdated units of measure. It is part of their plan for global domination! (kidding, but it's not like I would mind )

[blue_crew]

how easy would it be to extend the drive shaft output? our team is planning on using a six wheel drive but without using the skyway wheels. rather some modified off the shelf wheels. the problem is they are 2 inches wide at the widest point (the tread is only 1 inch) and the easiest way to line them up is to extend the output. any help?

[Rick TYler]

Originally Posted by sanddrag

I can't believe that FIRST is so generous as to provide such a great gearbox.

We just took one of our '05 KOP gearboxes apart. It is in great shape -- no visible signs of wear and no metal bits in the grease. We haven't touched them since building them during the second build week last year. The new ones are apparently just as bullet-proof, and is quieter to boot. I'm a HUGE fan.

[Rick TYler]

Originally Posted by Alekat

...our outdated units of measure. It is part of their plan for global domination!

I dunno. When the UK used Imperial measures, they ruled history's largest empire. Now they use metric and are just a medium-sized European country. It gives you something to think about.

(We used a metric bit to fix the problem.)

[EOC]

We got our 5/8" sprockets to fit by filing them out with a rat tailed file, it took about 10 minutes per sprocket.

[Paul Copioli]

I figure I am the most qualified person in the FIRST community to talk about the transmission and why all choices were made. So here goes:

1. The 21 tooth sprockets supplied with the kit are supposed to mate with the transmission output shaft with no modifications. If this is not the case, then something is wrong and you should contact IFI or FIRST.

2. The transmission was designed as a result of FIRST listening to many people in the FIRST community regarding the importance of a functional drive train for all teams. FIRST, along with IFI and Dr. Flowers, asked JVN and I to help design a kit transmission and a kit gearbox for rookies and low budget teams to have a functioning, competitive drive base without any advanced machining capabilities.

3. 100% of my time was donated to FIRST for this activity which included concepting, design, detailed drawings, prototyping, and (important) the entire manual creation. If you read the manual, it mentions the 16mm output shaft in 10 different locations.

4. The only change made from last year to this year is the addition of mounting holes for the gear tooth sensor. IFI and FIRST may have chosen different suppliers than last year, but no design changes were made.

5. Metric is the World standard. There is no argument. When you get into industry you will probably deal with metric components. You must be what I call "metric bilingual". If I had my way, the entire transmission would be metric simply because I am an engineer that does all design work in metric. One of the terms I had for volunteering my time was being able to use metric where no significant cost to FIRST would be incurred.

6. For reason number 5 above, some things are still in the English system. The hex shafts are 3/8" and 3/4" for purely cost reasons. The fasteners are 1/4"-20 for commonality with the kit frame and for cost reasons.

7. Metric bearings outnumber English bearings by almost 2:1 in availability. My team bought a 16mm drill and reamer with a 5mm key way broach for less than $100. If your team can't afford that cost, then the kit transmission had you in mind ... use it as given to you.

8. The kit transmission will last you for multiple years. My team plans on re-using our gears on the competition bot this year just to prove this point.


The bottom line is that in week 1, at a regional with about 10 rookies (Finger Lakes) everyone was driving around and there were no spin in place robots to be found. This was a drastic improvement over the prior years. The kit transmission was (and still is) a huge success. If the 16mm shaft bothers you that much (it is 0.004" larger than 5/8"), then just machine your own transmission ... or keep quiet. I really have no more patience left for the complainers. Better yet, you do something; I mean really DO something; to help out FIRST and the rest of the FIRST community.

When you give more than you receive, then come talk to me about the kit transmission.

Sincerely,

Paul Copioli

[Bruce Mather]

Are we the only team doing all dimensioning in cubits?

[lukevanoort]

Originally Posted by blue_crew

how easy would it be to extend the drive shaft output? our team is planning on using a six wheel drive but without using the skyway wheels. rather some modified off the shelf wheels. the problem is they are 2 inches wide at the widest point (the tread is only 1 inch) and the easiest way to line them up is to extend the output. any help?

Try moving your wheels a bit on the axle shaft to see if you can get a clear chain path. See if moving the center wheels out a bit and bringing in the others helps, or something similar.

[JVN]

Originally Posted by Paul Copioli

100% of my time was donated to FIRST for this activity...

Everyone take note of this statement.

How many people who used the kit transmission last season, took the time to thank Paul for all his hard work? (I did.)

It's never too late to say thank you.

[Mike Schroeder]

Originally Posted by JVN

Everyone take note of this statement.

How many people who used the kit transmission last season, took the time to thank Paul for all his hard work? (I did.)

It's never too late to say thank you.

even though Team 25 does not make use of the kit transmission, I admire Paul a great deal

WHY?

cause he does crazy things like this (and he can bear hug me ) You may not like it but read his post, FIRST, has been evolving since 1992
its not just Inspiration and Recognition anymore, you have to throw a P in there for Preparation....

FIRST is preparing us for the real world, and in the real world you are going to encounter Metric and SAE, if you don't believe me, just ask Mr. Lavery

Thanks Paul, For all that you do

[Ken358]

Great idea John
Thanks Paul the Kit trans Rocks!!! We used it last year over our own design because we found it to be so good and reliable.
I suspect most teams who used it are greatful. It makes building a good driving competitive robot acesssable to many teams who have limited resources.

Ken

[Evil Robotics]

We too used a Dremmel to modify purchased #35 chain sprockets to fit on the Metric shaft. We thought about taking the parts to the machine shop but, it was not difficult to make the adjustment with the help of a small file for key way.

I think the gearboxes as is are great. Thanks everyone who helped make them happen.

[Rob]

It seems like no matter what you do to help people, someone will have a problem with it. I guess its to be expected. My company gave everyone gift cards for the grocery store at Thanksgiving, and people complained about it. "I don't shop there... Is that all they can give" etc. What fun people.

I think most people's frustration comes when trying to apply a sprocket of smaller than 21 tooth size to the output shaft. I think reaming/sanding etc. are fine for opening up a 5/8 sprocket, but people may have a tough time with the 5mm keyway.

Maybe someone should offer up a source for smaller sprockets that are "plug and play" with the transmissions. (I smell a new product for AndyMark...)

Anyway, My team is using the kit transmissions and kit frame again this year. It is no secret that using these last year allowed us to focus on mechanisms and was a huge factor in our success last year.

Good luck to all teams, whether you use the kit components or not!

Rob

[Greg Needel]

Originally Posted by Rob

Maybe someone should offer up a source for smaller sprockets that are "plug and play" with the transmissions. (I smell a new product for AndyMark...)

the thing about this is that it is easy to just change the sprockets on the wheels instead. Remember with gear ratios you can change either sprocket and have the same effect. If you look at this from a company standpoint i would rather sell new sprockets for the wheels (more volume) then a more specific product of a lesser quantity.