Interesting Q/A's

[Billfred]

Here's one I find sorta perplexing:

Q: 6.3.5 states "FIRST will allow you to keep all of your robot controls (Operator Interface, OI power supply, joysticks, etc.) and not ship them with your robot on Tuesday, 2/21/2006. This will allow you to continue to work on your programming. If you decide not to ship controls with your robot, please rememberyour initial competition. FIRST does not have replacement controls."

Just to be sure, does the Robot Controller fall under the "etc." mentioned in 6.3.5?

A:The Robot Controller is considered part of the robot, not part of the operator interface. As such, it must be shipped with the robot prior to the shipping deadline.

[sanddrag]

Originally Posted by Billfred

Here's one I find sorta perplexing:

Q: 6.3.5 states "FIRST will allow you to keep all of your robot controls (Operator Interface, OI power supply, joysticks, etc.) and not ship them with your robot on Tuesday, 2/21/2006. This will allow you to continue to work on your programming. If you decide not to ship controls with your robot, please rememberyour initial competition. FIRST does not have replacement controls."

Just to be sure, does the Robot Controller fall under the "etc." mentioned in 6.3.5?

A:The Robot Controller is considered part of the robot, not part of the operator interface. As such, it must be shipped with the robot prior to the shipping deadline.

Incredibly disappointing. How are we supposed to develop software during the two 5 hour fix-it windows we all get after ship and during each week of regionals? Do they seriously expect us to spen hundreds of dollars on another just to make full use of the fix-it windows when our kit-provided RC is sitting dead in a crate? Do they expect us to minimize our code to run on an old controller? Then why have the new controller with more program space? What about rookie teams who have no RC from previous years? This Q/A answer does nothing except provide the rich teams an advantage. I hope FIRST seriously reconsiders this Q/A answer because of the unleveling of the playing field that will result.

[AmyPrib]

Originally Posted by sanddrag

Incredibly disappointing. How are we supposed to develop software during the two 5 hour fix-it windows we all get during each week of regionals? Do they seriously expect us to spen hundreds of dollars on another just to make full use of the fix-it windows when our RC is sitting dead in a crate? This Q/A answer does nothing except provide the rich teams an advantage.

Submit a follow-up question to Q/A if it is a large concern and see what their feedback is. I would suggest wording it in a more conducive manner.

[pyroslev]

http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=313

Q:
Hello, I'm a member of team 1814 (Rookie) in this years First Robotics Competition. We are currently not certain if our design violates one of the designing / game rules. Our robot has a internal system to transport and to store the balls ( the size used in competition). But we've read about one rule, <G13> stating that all of the balls must be contained within the robots and must be clearly visible from outside.

And another of our design, which involves a tight conveyor belt to transport the balls internally, we're debating whether it violates rule <G30> that states Robots must be designed to permit the release and removal of any balls from the robot without being powered up after the match. Though we could remove the balls on the conveyor belt manually, but it is liely that some of the balls contained in the storage may not be easily removed without poweing up the robot.

Out team is waiting for your answer if these disigns violates those rules.

A:
Under Rule <G13> any balls contained in the robot at the start of the match must be clearly visible so that the referees can determine the ball count. You will have to use your best judgement to determine if this is permitted by your design.

If it will be difficult to remove balls from your conveyor design without power, then you will be in violation of Rule <G30>. We would recommend that you reconsider the design and implement one that will not cause any problems for you at the competitions.

Does this one spook anyone's designs a bit?

[Andrew Blair]

Yes.

It makes it sound like only an open, gravity fed hopper is permissable. I doubt my fears however; even in a gravity hopper, it would be somewhat difficult to count all the balls from a distance.

Looks like we'll have to buy some Lexan!

[ahecht]

Originally Posted by Andrew Blair

It makes it sound like only an open, gravity fed hopper is permissable. I doubt my fears however; even in a gravity hopper, it would be somewhat difficult to count all the balls from a distance.

Not quite, a conveyor system with lexan side walls or a perforated conveyor material would be legal, provided there was a manual handle or crank you could use to manually advance it when the robot is powered down.

[Jon K.]

http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=182 That one is great, it asks about the end of auto, and the GDC answered for the end of the match. Very wierd.

[Swan217]

Originally Posted by Jon K.

http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=182 That one is great, it asks about the end of auto, and the GDC answered for the end of the match. Very wierd.

Originally Posted by GDC

The scoring system has been designed with this situation in mind. The counting system for the Corner Goals will be turned off as the buzzer sounds and the period ends. Balls that have not entered the Corner Goal when the period ends will not be counted. Balls thrown at the Center Goal will be counted if they have been released from the robot at the end of the period, and are in flight or in the goal as the buzzer sounds.

They seem to have answered the question for all four of the periods, including autonomous.


I think that the "no flopping bots" rule is quite interesting, a la 2005 HOT and 2002 Hammond.

Originally Posted by G17

<G17> ROBOT Orientation - ROBOTs must maintain their vertical orientation with respect to their starting
position throughout the match. ROBOTs may not intentionally tip over onto one of their initially vertical
sides and operate with this side parallel to the ground. If a ROBOT is accidentally or intentionally tipped
over onto its side, it cannot score any balls in any goals from this orientation.

[rees2001]

I was a little confused by this question...

Definition of midnight
Please clarify the definition of midnight in the robot ship rule:
Quote:
6.6.1.1 Crate Shipment Deadline and Requirement
ALL team crates must leave the team's hands or be delivered to the team’s initial event’s drayage warehouse
by midnight local time February 21, 2006.
Is midnight one minute after 11:59 pm, or is it one minute before 12:01 am?
Reply With Quote

answer.....
Re: Definition of midnight
If you ship at any time on February 21, 2006 you will be in compliance with the "by midnight local time" rule.

Oh thanks, that really helps.

(please lets not start a discussion on when a day starts or ends)

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by rees2001

I was a little confused by this question...

Definition of midnight
Please clarify the definition of midnight in the robot ship rule:
Quote:
6.6.1.1 Crate Shipment Deadline and Requirement
ALL team crates must leave the team's hands or be delivered to the team’s initial event’s drayage warehouse
by midnight local time February 21, 2006.
Is midnight one minute after 11:59 pm, or is it one minute before 12:01 am?
Reply With Quote

answer.....
Re: Definition of midnight
If you ship at any time on February 21, 2006 you will be in compliance with the "by midnight local time" rule.

Oh thanks, that really helps.

(please lets not start a discussion on when a day starts or ends)

OK, I'm a new mentor for FRC, and the main mentor asked me to check into shipping rules. Other deadlines (such as Chairman's) specify 11:59 pm. I didn't want our team to get Cinderella'd because there was a misunderstanding in regard to which day midnight belonged to - that's all.

[Greg Needel]

Originally Posted by GaryV1188

OK, I'm a new mentor for FRC, and the main mentor asked me to check into shipping rules. Other deadlines (such as Chairman's) specify 11:59 pm. I didn't want our team to get Cinderella'd because there was a misunderstanding in regard to which day midnight belonged to - that's all.

Don't worry so much about it. I would just plan a pick up sometime in the afternoon and you will be fine. I really doubt you could get a fedex truck to be at your facility at midnight anyway.

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by Greg Needel

Don't worry so much about it. I would just plan a pick up sometime in the afternoon and you will be fine. I really doubt you could get a fedex truck to be at your facility at midnight anyway.

No, but I wouldn't want FedEx to show up at 5:00 pm Tuesday, only then find out because of the way midnight was defined, we were 17 hours too late!

[Rombus]

Originally Posted by ahecht

Not quite, a conveyor system with lexan side walls or a perforated conveyor material would be legal, provided there was a manual handle or crank you could use to manually advance it when the robot is powered down.

GMTA! Me and my team were discussing this a few days ago, Would be funny to go out there with a model-t crank to unload our bot!

In any case, im thinking it would be alot simpler to use some hinges and latches and create a opening section of lexan to load/unload our bot

[Rick TYler]

Originally Posted by Rombus

In any case, im thinking it would be a lot simpler to use some hinges and latches and create a opening section of lexan to load/unload our bot

Velcro!

[dubious elise]

I read through this a few times and I'm still slightly mystified.
On one hand, we have this ...

Question: It's my understanding that the scoring system counts balls as they go through the goal slots. If they are using a beam break sensor, which seems the most obvious, will it get confused and/or miscount if a large amount of balls is dumped in a corner goal at once (ie. dumptruck style)?

Answer: Balls are scored using a combination of real-time ball counters. Balls scored in the Corner Goals are counted by a vision system as they pass over a lighted strip as they enter the corrals. Balls scored in the Center Goal are counted using a photoswitch as they enter the return tube. Additional photoswitches detect balls scored in the Center Goal, but not yet counted at the end of a period, to tell the scoring system to wait 5 seconds to be sure all balls are counted.

yet in another thread, I found this

Question: This line of questions deals with the timing of scored balls in the center goal (section 4.3.3). If team A gets 10 balls into the goal in auton, but only 7 make it to the detector by the end of auton, how many count for auton, 7 or 10? If the answer above is 7 and team A ends up going on defense first, what happens to the 3 balls that went in the goal, but not past the detector? If the answer is 10, is there a delay before the second period starts in order to count the balls?

Answer: The scoring system has been designed with this situation in mind. The counting system for the Corner Goals will be turned off as the buzzer sounds and the period ends. Balls that have not entered the Corner Goal when the period ends will not be counted. Balls thrown at the Center Goal will be counted if they have been released from the robot at the end of the period, and are in flight or in the goal as the buzzer sounds.

Any thoughts, or are these two rulings relating to totally separate parts of the game?