Go to Post The students that I have known in FIRST over my 8 years of involvement have been far more inspired by the competition and some of the jaw dropping creations of "elite" teams than by anything that we made ourselves. - MattB703 [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Technical > Electrical
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Closed Thread
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-02-2006, 02:22
sanddrag sanddrag is offline
On to my 16th year in FRC
FRC #0696 (Circuit Breakers)
Team Role: Teacher
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Glendale, CA
Posts: 8,516
sanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond repute
The importance of clean wiring

I think having clean (un-jungle-like) wiring is very important. I have several reasons of my own, but I'd like to hear yours.

Please post why clean wiring is important. If you do not think clean wiring is important, this thread is not for you.
__________________
Teacher/Engineer/Machinist - Team 696 Circuit Breakers, 2011 - Present
Mentor/Engineer/Machinist, Team 968 RAWC, 2007-2010
Technical Mentor, Team 696 Circuit Breakers, 2005-2007
Student Mechanical Leader and Driver, Team 696 Circuit Breakers, 2002-2004
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-02-2006, 06:27
Eldarion's Avatar
Eldarion Eldarion is offline
Electrical Engineer / Computer Geek
AKA: Eldarion Telcontar
no team (Teamless Orphan)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Númenor
Posts: 558
Eldarion has a reputation beyond reputeEldarion has a reputation beyond reputeEldarion has a reputation beyond reputeEldarion has a reputation beyond reputeEldarion has a reputation beyond reputeEldarion has a reputation beyond reputeEldarion has a reputation beyond reputeEldarion has a reputation beyond reputeEldarion has a reputation beyond reputeEldarion has a reputation beyond reputeEldarion has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Eldarion Send a message via Yahoo to Eldarion
Re: The importance of clean wiring

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanddrag
I think having clean (un-jungle-like) wiring is very important. I have several reasons of my own, but I'd like to hear yours.

Please post why clean wiring is important. If you do not think clean wiring is important, this thread is not for you.
Not sure if it would / could be a problem in FIRST, but I am always concerned about inductive / capacitive "cross talk" in a rats nest.

Also, there are the ever-present dangers of shorting things out and hooking things up wrong when you can't trace the wiring.
__________________
CMUCam not working? Tracks sporadically? Try this instead: http://www.falconir.com!
PM me for more information if you are interested (it's open source!).

Want the FIRST Email blasts? See here: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=50809

"The harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheaply, we esteem too lightly; it is dearness only that gives everything its value."
-- Thomas Paine

If it's falling apart it's a mechanical problem. If it's spewing smoke it's a electrical problem.
If it's rampaging around destroying things it's a programming problem.

"All technology is run on 'Magic Smoke' contained within the device. As everyone knows, whenever the magic smoke is released, the device ceases to function."
-- Anonymous

I currently speak: English, some German, Verilog, x86 and 8051 Assembler, C, C++, VB, VB.NET, ASP, PHP, HTML, UNIX and SQL
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-02-2006, 09:22
Gdeaver Gdeaver is offline
Registered User
FRC #1640
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: West Chester, Pa.
Posts: 1,367
Gdeaver has a reputation beyond reputeGdeaver has a reputation beyond reputeGdeaver has a reputation beyond reputeGdeaver has a reputation beyond reputeGdeaver has a reputation beyond reputeGdeaver has a reputation beyond reputeGdeaver has a reputation beyond reputeGdeaver has a reputation beyond reputeGdeaver has a reputation beyond reputeGdeaver has a reputation beyond reputeGdeaver has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The importance of clean wiring

Wires hang loose spaghetti style are susceptible to mechanical stress. When something fails clean, neat, and labeled cabling makes the repair easier. Secured wiring is important with this years rotating devices.
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-02-2006, 10:57
Richard Wallace's Avatar
Richard Wallace Richard Wallace is offline
I live for the details.
FRC #3620 (Average Joes)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Rookie Year: 1996
Location: Southwestern Michigan
Posts: 3,661
Richard Wallace has a reputation beyond reputeRichard Wallace has a reputation beyond reputeRichard Wallace has a reputation beyond reputeRichard Wallace has a reputation beyond reputeRichard Wallace has a reputation beyond reputeRichard Wallace has a reputation beyond reputeRichard Wallace has a reputation beyond reputeRichard Wallace has a reputation beyond reputeRichard Wallace has a reputation beyond reputeRichard Wallace has a reputation beyond reputeRichard Wallace has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The importance of clean wiring

Clean wiring is easier to inspect, easier to rework, and less susceptible to entanglement. It will make your robot more popular with inspectors, judges, and scouts.
__________________
Richard Wallace

Mentor since 2011 for FRC 3620 Average Joes (St. Joseph, Michigan)
Mentor 2002-10 for FRC 931 Perpetual Chaos (St. Louis, Missouri)
since 2003

I believe in intuition and inspiration. Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited, whereas imagination embraces the entire world, stimulating progress, giving birth to evolution. It is, strictly speaking, a real factor in scientific research.
(Cosmic Religion : With Other Opinions and Aphorisms (1931) by Albert Einstein, p. 97)
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-02-2006, 11:17
KenWittlief KenWittlief is offline
.
no team
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 4,213
KenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The importance of clean wiring

Labeling is most important. Imagine your RC gets impailed during a match.

How in the world will you swap in a new one, if you have to trace every wire back to see where it goes?

Labels at both ends of all wires (esp PWM cables) will save you!
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-02-2006, 12:33
Richard Wallace's Avatar
Richard Wallace Richard Wallace is offline
I live for the details.
FRC #3620 (Average Joes)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Rookie Year: 1996
Location: Southwestern Michigan
Posts: 3,661
Richard Wallace has a reputation beyond reputeRichard Wallace has a reputation beyond reputeRichard Wallace has a reputation beyond reputeRichard Wallace has a reputation beyond reputeRichard Wallace has a reputation beyond reputeRichard Wallace has a reputation beyond reputeRichard Wallace has a reputation beyond reputeRichard Wallace has a reputation beyond reputeRichard Wallace has a reputation beyond reputeRichard Wallace has a reputation beyond reputeRichard Wallace has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The importance of clean wiring

Quote:
Originally Posted by KenWittlief
....Imagine your RC gets impailed during a match. ...
...the... horror!
__________________
Richard Wallace

Mentor since 2011 for FRC 3620 Average Joes (St. Joseph, Michigan)
Mentor 2002-10 for FRC 931 Perpetual Chaos (St. Louis, Missouri)
since 2003

I believe in intuition and inspiration. Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited, whereas imagination embraces the entire world, stimulating progress, giving birth to evolution. It is, strictly speaking, a real factor in scientific research.
(Cosmic Religion : With Other Opinions and Aphorisms (1931) by Albert Einstein, p. 97)
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-02-2006, 12:50
KenWittlief KenWittlief is offline
.
no team
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 4,213
KenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The importance of clean wiring

one year our battery broke loose from its holder when the robot hit the railing at full speed

the RC tried to stop the battery forward motion, but it just wasnt up to the task !
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-02-2006, 17:41
TonzOFun TonzOFun is offline
Registered User
AKA: Chris
FRC #0555 (Montclair Robotics)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Montclair,NJ
Posts: 22
TonzOFun is on a distinguished road
Send a message via AIM to TonzOFun
Re: The importance of clean wiring

Clean wiring is also important to ease replacement of parts on your electronics board.

In 2004, our robot burnt out a speed controller and broke our breaker panel. Due to jumbled wiring, the breaker panel and speed controller are now hanging in mid-air, being supported only by the wires.

Clean wiring also helps during competition to replace broken or loose connections quickly between matches.
__________________

Name: Chris Noll || Position: Alumni
Areas of Knowledge: Design, Fabrication, Pneumatics
2005 Awards
Arizona Regional Winners || New York Regional Finalists
New York Regional Website Award || New York Regional Sportsmanship Award
Championship Sportsmanship Award || Brunswick Eruption: Mike's Favorite
  #9   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-02-2006, 22:00
Chriszuma's Avatar
Chriszuma Chriszuma is offline
Jack of all trades
AKA: Chris Hammond
FRC #0068 (Truck Town Thunder)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Clarkston, MI
Posts: 290
Chriszuma is just really niceChriszuma is just really niceChriszuma is just really niceChriszuma is just really nice
Send a message via AIM to Chriszuma
Re: The importance of clean wiring

There is something therapeutic about an electrical board that is carefully planned and neatly laid out. It just soothes the soul to be able to see where every wire goes. I think tangled wires cause bad karma.
__________________
2006 T3 World Tour: Great Lakes - Waterloo - Palmetto - IRI
2006 Awards: Motorola Quality - RadioShack Innovation in Control

My website: http://zuma.phire.org/
Truck Town Thunder's website: http://trucktownthunder.com/
  #10   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-02-2006, 22:13
Alan Anderson's Avatar
Alan Anderson Alan Anderson is offline
Software Architect
FRC #0045 (TechnoKats)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Kokomo, Indiana
Posts: 9,113
Alan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The importance of clean wiring

Clean wiring and clear labeling makes it easier for the electrical team to show that a problem isn't their fault and dump it on the programming team.

(In self-defense, clean coding and built-in diagnostics can make it easier for the programming team to convince everyone that a problem is in the hardware.)
  #11   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-02-2006, 22:31
Unsung FIRST Hero
Al Skierkiewicz Al Skierkiewicz is offline
Broadcast Eng/Chief Robot Inspector
AKA: Big Al WFFA 2005
FRC #0111 (WildStang)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 1996
Location: Wheeling, IL
Posts: 10,792
Al Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The importance of clean wiring

Clean, orderly wiring always seems to work better. I don't know why it just does...
Now seriously, wiring needs to keep clear of moving parts, not block what might lie underneath, be clearly marked as to where it goes, and it should be placed so that a few well chosen ty-wraps will keep it in place when the robot falls off the ramp or run's into the field boundary.
__________________
Good Luck All. Learn something new, everyday!
Al
WB9UVJ
www.wildstang.org
________________________
Storming the Tower since 1996.
  #12   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-02-2006, 22:44
Eldarion's Avatar
Eldarion Eldarion is offline
Electrical Engineer / Computer Geek
AKA: Eldarion Telcontar
no team (Teamless Orphan)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Númenor
Posts: 558
Eldarion has a reputation beyond reputeEldarion has a reputation beyond reputeEldarion has a reputation beyond reputeEldarion has a reputation beyond reputeEldarion has a reputation beyond reputeEldarion has a reputation beyond reputeEldarion has a reputation beyond reputeEldarion has a reputation beyond reputeEldarion has a reputation beyond reputeEldarion has a reputation beyond reputeEldarion has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Eldarion Send a message via Yahoo to Eldarion
Re: The importance of clean wiring

Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz
Clean, orderly wiring always seems to work better. I don't know why it just does...
Because neat wiring is a side-effect of lots of effort being put into it!
A rat's nest emerges from a rushed, sloppy job...
__________________
CMUCam not working? Tracks sporadically? Try this instead: http://www.falconir.com!
PM me for more information if you are interested (it's open source!).

Want the FIRST Email blasts? See here: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=50809

"The harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheaply, we esteem too lightly; it is dearness only that gives everything its value."
-- Thomas Paine

If it's falling apart it's a mechanical problem. If it's spewing smoke it's a electrical problem.
If it's rampaging around destroying things it's a programming problem.

"All technology is run on 'Magic Smoke' contained within the device. As everyone knows, whenever the magic smoke is released, the device ceases to function."
-- Anonymous

I currently speak: English, some German, Verilog, x86 and 8051 Assembler, C, C++, VB, VB.NET, ASP, PHP, HTML, UNIX and SQL
  #13   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-02-2006, 23:15
Mike's Avatar
Mike Mike is offline
has common ground with Matt Krass
AKA: Mike Sorrenti
FRC #0237 (Sie-H2O-Bots (See-Hoe-Bots) [T.R.I.B.E.])
Team Role: Programmer
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Watertown, CT
Posts: 1,003
Mike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The importance of clean wiring

I think somebody needs to author a "FIRST Shui: Electrical Wiring" book
__________________
http://www.mikesorrenti.com/
  #14   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-02-2006, 23:18
ForgottenSalad's Avatar
ForgottenSalad ForgottenSalad is offline
In search of a home...
AKA: Michael Wessler
no team
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Bethlehem, NH
Posts: 136
ForgottenSalad will become famous soon enoughForgottenSalad will become famous soon enough
Send a message via AIM to ForgottenSalad
Re: The importance of clean wiring

Quote:
Originally Posted by KenWittlief
Labeling is most important. Imagine your RC gets impailed during a match.

How in the world will you swap in a new one, if you have to trace every wire back to see where it goes?

Labels at both ends of all wires (esp PWM cables) will save you!
I will vouch on that one... Last year at atlanta we got our radio port on the RC knocked loose and had to change boards in less than 10 minutes... the only things we had labeled were four of the pwm cables. Everything else took a while to find what went where and then hooking it up.
  #15   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-02-2006, 23:25
Cody Carey's Avatar
Cody Carey Cody Carey is offline
,':-)
AKA: C. Carey
FRC #0306 (CRT)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Corry, PA
Posts: 1,137
Cody Carey has a reputation beyond reputeCody Carey has a reputation beyond reputeCody Carey has a reputation beyond reputeCody Carey has a reputation beyond reputeCody Carey has a reputation beyond reputeCody Carey has a reputation beyond reputeCody Carey has a reputation beyond reputeCody Carey has a reputation beyond reputeCody Carey has a reputation beyond reputeCody Carey has a reputation beyond reputeCody Carey has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Cody Carey Send a message via Yahoo to Cody Carey
Re: The importance of clean wiring

Clean wiring is important for self satisfaction... in the past nobody on our team was skilled enough to do a good job (all the seniors were gone and we had 10th grade captains AKA Andrew blair and myself). But now that we have learned a little more and are a little wiser... we can look at our electronics board and be happy, for it is good.
__________________
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Excellence in wiring - post your pics sanddrag Robot Showcase 32 15-02-2006 23:09
LCD wiring to Program port jgannon Control System 10 30-01-2005 23:28
user code to default code phoenixomega001 Programming 5 09-01-2005 00:09
Neat & Organised Electric Wiring thoughtful Electrical 30 13-12-2004 22:46
Spazing Robot Matthew_H Electrical 15 19-04-2004 07:49


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 17:52.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi