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Unread 07-02-2006, 15:01
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Re: Small motor used as sensor

The way I read it, a KOP motor can be used as a tach and DC tach can be be purchased and used as a tach. And that's all.
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Unread 07-02-2006, 15:34
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Re: Small motor used as sensor

Thanks for that, had me worried for a bit there
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Unread 07-02-2006, 16:26
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Re: Small motor used as sensor

Here is my take.

If there is a NON-KOP motor on the robot, the wires must be connected to an input (IFI or custom).
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Unread 07-02-2006, 16:31
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Re: Small motor used as sensor

Quote:
Originally Posted by ttedrow
Here is my take.

If there is a NON-KOP motor on the robot, the wires must be connected to an input (IFI or custom).
I would have agreed with you but not anymore.

I believe that the answer to the Tachometer question implied that R44 forbids all motors other that KOP motors and those specifically allowed by R44 (which reference the R43 exceptions).

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Unread 07-02-2006, 16:32
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Re: Small motor used as sensor

Quote:
Originally Posted by ttedrow
If there is a NON-KOP motor on the robot, the wires must be connected to an input (IFI or custom).
I have to disagree. With what I have read on the Q&As, and with the discussion here, I think that Joe is right on when saying that NO non-KOP motor may be used at all.

If it is a motor, not allowed. If it is listed and branded as a DC tachometer, then it is allowed.

It may sound like an odd statement, since some, if not all, DC tachs will have a motor/generator internally, but I think they want to not allow any non-KOP 'motor' from being on the robot in its purest form.

-Nate
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Unread 07-02-2006, 16:56
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Re: Small motor used as sensor

Quote:
Originally Posted by ntroup
If it is a motor, not allowed. If it is listed and branded as a DC tachometer, then it is allowed.
-Nate
So you get a page of label paper for your inkjet printer

make a nice little label that says:

Kens Kustom Analog Tachometer
Model 2006F
Serial # 123456789
(not a motor)

and put it on a DC motor and Wallah! you have a tachometer.

This rule is really splitting hairs and getting lost in semantics. If a device with coils and magnets is not wired to a power source, then it is not functioning as a motor.

This reminds me of a black-powder kit I got for christmas one year. When assembled it was a black-powder pistol. But you must have a pistol permit to own a pistol. According to the manual that came with the kit, if you assemble it, but never fire it, then its not a pistol and you dont need a permit

but the first time you put black powder and a bullet, and fire the thing, then it instantly transforms into a pistol, and a permit is now required!

Last edited by KenWittlief : 07-02-2006 at 17:00.
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Unread 07-02-2006, 17:09
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Re: Small motor used as sensor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Wittlief
So you get a page of label paper for your inkjet printer

make a nice little label that says:

Kens Kustom Analog Tachometer
Model 2006F
Serial # 123456789
(not a motor)

and put it on a DC motor and Wallah! you have a tachometer.
Ken, I guess your idea would be OK if someone who qualified as a supplier could supply the motor (re-badged as a tachometer) to all teams as a COTS item.

My problem as an inpector would be how to tell a 'real' (!?) tachometer from a functionally identical device that was sold as a motor. Like Joe, I suspect this would be difficult.

Of course I agree with Ken and Joe that the rule is not technically sound; I also think it may be difficult to police.
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Unread 07-02-2006, 17:25
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Re: Small motor used as sensor

Let's not get too worked up about this "Motors can't be Tachs" rule. I am not ready to go storm the gates and get these people to see reason.

In actual fact, motors make a pretty lousy tachometers compared to how easy an alternative is on a FIRST robot. Basically all you need to do is get a Banner Sensor or an encoder or maybe even a reed switch mounted to the thing that was going to drive the motor/tachometer and then use the RC calculate speed by either counting pulses per given time or by timing each pulse (which is a piece of cake, given Kevin Watson's many fine examples).

I would argue that there is almost always a better solution to the tachometer problem than using a motor as a generator.

It is an unexpected rule interpretation, but it is one I think reasonable people can live with.

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