Defense: Pushing and Blocking

[d.courtney]

It seems that many teams (from the teasers they have released) have been sacrificing defensive measures for having a better shooting robot... which then lies my question... do you see your team as a defencive asset and if so, how many robots would you hazard to guess that you could push at once, as pushing robots around is the easiest type of defence. Last years robot we had was pushing 3 robots at once in Waterloo, and this years can out push our last years robot by a long shot. And secondly how well do you think your robot will block?

[vadyr]

im no in manufacturing, so i cant speak for them..but im a potenial driver, and from driving this thing i know that its really solid and when u want to u can stop anything with it. i know it doesnt have an obvious defensive system, but i gues you could say being a strong and solid robot is a system in its own

[DjAlamose]

We have sacrificed some defensive measures on our robot for a more offensive robot. But we still have our counter measures for being pushed around. We don’t want to burn down our battery by trying to push a robot and then try to shoot at the same time. That would be bad. So we came up with a few ways of preventing that. AND PLEASE remember not to be un GP and ram your robot into others. Yes it’s against the rules but it still happens and isn't always called. We had big problems with teams ramming into us last year. But we have found our own little ways of stopping the unstoppable.

[Jonathan Norris]

The difference this year is the FIRST has really out-lawed defensive measures, such as wedges, making it much simpler to play defense. Every robot will be a box this year, as long as your CG isn't too bad defense can be played by anyone. I have seen many teams who have decided to use 2 cim motors for their shooter, but a lot are also using the 2-speed AM shifter, which on low gear will provide the same amount of torque (roughly) as a kit gearbox with 2 cim in the AM shifter (considering proper ratios). We are using the AM shifter, and will have a lot more pushing power than last year if we keep 4 CIM on the bottom. but a low CG robot will be much better at defense than a high CG robot with high torque.

[vadyr]

Originally Posted by DjAlamose

We have sacrificed some defensive measures on our robot for a more offensive robot. But we still have our counter measures for being pushed around. We don’t want to burn down our battery by trying to push a robot and then try to shoot at the same time. That would be bad. So we came up with a few ways of preventing that. AND PLEASE remember not to be un GP and ram your robot into others. Yes it’s against the rules but it still happens and isn't always called. We had big problems with teams ramming into us last year. But we have found our own little ways of stopping the unstoppable.

yea ramming was a problem last year...at nationals we were pinned against the wall and being rammed repeatedly and it wasnt called. we finally faked him and got out of there, but there was some damage as a result of it

[d.courtney]

yes ramming is a problem, and we were bullies so to speak last year on the feild, for a little while at least an we are sorry to any team which we caused any extra work. we quickly found ways to be defensive with no team or ref finding any fault in us... we went without penalties in our second compatition as a cause of this.... the biggest thing to remember is that ramming is bad, so since we had the power last year we would go up to a team at a reasonable speed then full power once touching them... this caused no damage in robots and no penalties, also remember 2-3 seconds as a rule of thumb for pinning... just some tips

[Daniel_LaFleur]

If we play defense, it will be pushing. Most targeting systems wont be able to shoot accurately if thier platform (IE the robot) is being pushed or disturbed while shooting. So they will have to try to get a clear shot, stop to shoot. We may not have the most fancy drive system (matter of fact, its kinda plain) but we will push around most bots this year, especially those holonomic jobbers

[sanddrag]

we have sacrificed some traction for driveability. we will still have a 4 motor 6wd 2 speed drive system though

[Pavan Dave]

Defence???? Who needs defence with an awesome offence??

LoL...

I think that we will end up just being the tall guy standing in front of you bumping for defence

-Pavan

[Josh Murphy]

our robot can play defense if needed and offense if needed so we are potentially a balanced machine but we are leaning more towards one of the two so time will tell.

[demps45]

We have found over the years that a robot that maneuvers well usually has an advantage over a slower more powerful one. There will always be some pushing and other defensive stratigies, but a good offense will prevail over a defensive only robot. Our robot this year should be very good offensively and still be able to play defense, after all, just simple blocking will be effective this year.

[demps45]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Norris

The difference this year is the FIRST has really out-lawed defensive measures, such as wedges, making it much simpler to play defense. Every robot will be a box this year, as long as your CG isn't too bad defense can be played by anyone. I have seen many teams who have decided to use 2 cim motors for their shooter, but a lot are also using the 2-speed AM shifter, which on low gear will provide the same amount of torque (roughly) as a kit gearbox with 2 cim in the AM shifter (considering proper ratios). We are using the AM shifter, and will have a lot more pushing power than last year if we keep 4 CIM on the bottom. but a low CG robot will be much better at defense than a high CG robot with high torque.

Using 4 CIM motors will give you plenty of power to push others, but when faced with another robot with equal power, it comes down to whoever has the best traction. After all, more power does not help without more traction to go with it. However, it will not take much pushing to knock another robot "off target".

[Josh Murphy]

i agree with you it all really depends on the strategies that comes about so some that play offense might end up playing defense and some that want to play defense might play offense so the machine has to be versitile

[Shu Song]

Any robot can play a very good defense, even if it doesn't have "defensive measures". Short range pushing has always been allowed by FIRST and that's all you need to get a shooting robot of target. The robot that can plant itself somewhere and can't be moved will have the easiest time at shooting balls in.

Ideally, the best robot would be one that can shoot on the move, its barrel aimed at the goal all the time and adjusted for movement. But due to the not so accurate nature of the camera, this type of tracking system would be incredibly hard to implement. (if a team has achieved this, I appologize for underestimating)

So really, any robot that can move can play defense just as good as any other. Lots of pushing power isn't necessarily important, because all that is required for a robot to miss is a little nudge while shooting. Granted that great pushing power is never bad thing, it's (IMO) not a very integral part of this year's defense on robots.

[artdutra04]

This year's game will be a very dynamic one, in which the strategies that you start with will not necessarily be the ones you stick with. Because there are so many different ideas on the best way to actually win, and/or prevent the other alliance from winning, we will see some very interesting strategy this year.

For the past two years, my team has always focused on solid offense. As great as a good defense is, if you can put up six tetras per match, or score twenty poof balls into the center goal in ten seconds, you are at a much better advantage. I love amazing offensive dominations; as the amount of creative engineering and design and thought that goes into them is unbelievable. After all, why are teams like 71 and 111 held in such high regard among the FIRST community?

Defense wins matches. Offense wins competitions.