an evil, desperate, ramp strategy

[BoyWithCape195]

Originally Posted by B. Flaherty

If you re-read the rule, you will see that you are mistaken. No offense Just re-read the bold statement.

EDIT: Sorry to be redundant, was beaten to it.

Um... you might want to re read it yourself, the rule clearly states that

"ALLIANCEs receive points for ROBOTs belonging to either
ALLIANCE that are on the ALLIANCE PLATFORM closest to the ALLIANCE’s DRIVER station"

Notice the either, it doesn't matter what alliance the team is, it matters how many robots are on their ramp.

[Wetzel]

Originally Posted by BoyWithCape195

Um... you might want to re read it yourself, the rule clearly states that

"ALLIANCEs receive points for ROBOTs belonging to either
ALLIANCE that are on the ALLIANCE PLATFORM closest to the ALLIANCE’s DRIVER station"

Notice the either, it doesn't matter what alliance the team is, it matters how many robots are on their ramp.

That is exactly what he said. For king of the hill points, the only color that matters is the platform color.

Now that we have THAT settled....

Wetzel

[Nimmy]

yeah it would probably cause serious damage, and of course if any team causes another team damage during the match the least they could do is offer a helping hand

I just wonder if giving them that "nudge" that will tip them over would be considered ramming

and yeha I know it isn't very GP (allthough as wetzel said, it's defense), but as I said a DESEPRATE and EVIL strategy =)

and hey if im on they ramp and I knocked down 3 others I earned my share EVEN if I don't get off of it at the end of the match

[Carol]

Originally Posted by Nimmy

I just wonder if giving them that "nudge" that will tip them over would be considered ramming

I can't remember where or when, but I was a ref in a match where the following occurred. REDABOT was hit legally by BLUEABOT. REDABOT was teetering, and BLUEABOT backed up, drove forward again slowly, then gave REDABOT a "nudge" with caused them to tip over. BLUEABOT was DQ'ed.

[B. Flaherty]

I think there was confusion because I made a double post and instead of deleting it, I just edited it to say so.

I was agreeing with Adam, and my post was in response to Taylor. I understand that the only thing that matters at the end of the match, is how many robots are on the ramp, alliance affiliation makes no difference.

[MattB703]

Pushing a robot to keep it off the platform is legitimate defense. Intentionally tipping a robot to keep it off the ramp is a penalty. It will be up to the ref to judge your intent.

My advise - don't purposely tip anyone over.

[Kevin Sevcik]

Yeah. There's that whole "Strategies aimed solely at the at the destruction or tipping of other robots" clause in the rules. I think you're skirting a very fine edge there. It's one thing to be on the ramp blocking them. It's another to be actively moving forward to tip them over. You may or may not be penalized, but I'd certainly be uncomfortablewith the strategy. And since you can't defend the entire ramp, they're likely to get atleast one robot up, plus yours, so they'd get 10 points for two bots. Or they'd keep you stuck up there and get 5 points for one bot.

[Bill Moore]

Originally Posted by MattB703

Pushing a robot to keep it off the platform is legitimate defense. Intentionally tipping a robot to keep it off the ramp is a penalty. It will be up to the ref to judge your intent.

My advise - don't purposely tip anyone over.

Any team planning to use this "slight nudge" strategy as a defensive mechanism has already decided to put the referee into a judgement call decision. You might as well start writing your complaints now, cause some of these judgements will go against you.

Robots don't stop on a dime. I don't care if you don't have your hands on the joystick at the moment of impact. If the forward momentum of your robot is the last bit of energy needed for that robot to tip over, you should be penalized, regardless of how slight the impact is, or how "tipsy" the other robot is. You have chosen a strategy that splits hairs over a rule concerning the intentional tipping of robots. As Beth has stated above, many would find this strategy to be Anti-GP.

Maybe next years KOP should have air-bag sensors, so we can measure just how much force was applied to a robot that tipped over. If the air-bag goes off, you get DQ'd -- guess what, it no longer becomes a judgement call!

There are so many other potential strategies that are defensive in nature and aren't Anti-GP, that I don't see the purpose for this particular one. Why is the strategy to wait on their platform? A high CG robot is logically going to be shooting for the high goal at the end of the match. You will have at least a half field-length to block and hinder their approach to the ramp. Why would you waste your time sitting on their ramp for a potentially disasterous strategy? No, there are way too many other strategies that can be employed at the end game, than to take a chance on something as risky as this.

[dhitchco]

Ok,
So if I'm the blue alliance, and there is one or more of the three "redabots" on top of MY platform (the one closest to my blue driver stations), then my blue alliance gets points even if my own three bluebots don't get onto the platform; correct?

Therefore, It make sense to defend (but not pin) any redabots on the blue platform at the end of the match.

Just because I can't climb and be king of my own (blue) hill doesn't mean that I'm about to let any redabot "stragglers" from getting down off of my hill; correct? Just don't pin them up onto your platform. You can "touch" the redabot on the blue platform and that redabot still counts for the blue alliance.


I guess it begs the question of why any alliance would want to park any of their bots on top of YOUR platform?

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by dhitchco

Ok,
So if I'm the blue alliance, and there is one or more of the three "redabots" on top of MY platform (the one closest to my blue driver stations), then my blue alliance gets points even if my own three bluebots don't get onto the platform; correct?

Therefore, It make sense to defend (but not pin) any redabots on the blue platform at the end of the match.

Just because I can't climb and be king of my own (blue) hill doesn't mean that I'm about to let any redabot "stragglers" from getting down off of my hill; correct? Just don't pin them up onto your platform.

Why not pin? It's allowed on the platform.

You can "touch" the redabot on the blue platform and that redabot still counts for the blue alliance.

Don't even have to be touching. Redabot could have gone up there under it's own power and then stalled - still counts for the blue alliance.

I guess it begs the question of why any alliance would want to park any of their bots on top of YOUR platform?

Maybe because then you're only about 2 feet from the center goal?

[dhitchco]

Good catch by Gary,

so it is indeed legal to "pin" and contain any robot while it is on the platform. It's only illegal ti "pin" while both robots are on the carpeted field (per <G24>)

So, if your the blue alliance and any one of the redabots is on YOUR platform (the one closest to your blue driving station) then it coulds as 5 points for YOUR blue alliance as long as you can hold them up on the platform.

Hmmmm, I think that their ability of charging DOWN the ramp is stronger than your bluebot ability to keep them up on the platform.....

[Alekat]

Originally Posted by dhitchco

Hmmmm, I think that their ability of charging DOWN the ramp is stronger than your bluebot ability to keep them up on the platform.....

Normally I would say the uphill advantage would just about finish any robot trying to pin you on the alliance platform. But remember the top of the platform is made out of plastic (polyethylene?) while the pinning robot would be on carpet. I think it comes down to drive train more than anything, since they are both equally likely to be on the diamond plate.

[Nimmy]

actually, I can allready imagine the top bot just flipping over because he runs into the buttom bot...especially if they ram into eachother

[EricH]

Originally Posted by dhitchco

It's only illegal ti "pin" while both robots are on the carpeted field (per <G24>)

You are allowed to pin on the floor any time you choose. However, if you pin for more than ten seconds, a ref will tell you to back off. If you don't, it's one flag for every ten seconds until you back off three feet. If you back off three feet, then repin the other robot, the count starts over. (<G24> again)

[Nimmy]

are you sure it's not 5sec? I would check the PDF's but my pc is going a bit slow