Is FIRST a Sport

[Daniel Morse]

Originally Posted by GB330033

Personally, I wouldn't call FIRST a sport. Then again, I wouldn't call NASCAR a sport. It's not the term "sport" that I have a problem, but the associated term "athlete." I would in no way call those of us who participate in FIRST athletes, nor would I call NASCAR drivers athletes. Neither of the two take any real athletic ability, so why should they be called sports. Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking FIRST, I just don't think it can be lumped in with football, basketball, baseball, soccer, etc. Those are sports. You have to be a real athlete to play them. FIRST, NASCAR, golf, bowling, etc, are not sports, as you do not have to be an athlete to participate. Though one could argue that FIRST is a sport via lexicon, it would most certainly not be considered one by the majority of society and the socially accepted definition of "sport." I believe a better term would be "competition." The same goes for NASCAR and the like, it is a competition, a game, not a sport.

Also, as a note, I would actually consider cheerleading a sport.

Actually, I must say that according to your definition you are correct in your analysis. FIRST is not a sport because it does not involve athletes. My point in my post was mainly to show that under a generalized definition of sports as competitions (e.g NASCAR), FIRST fits the requirements. Good thought on your part.

[GB330033]

According to Google: Athlete - A person possessing the natural or acquired traits, such as strength, agility, and endurance, that are necessary for physical exercise or sports, especially those performed in competitive contexts.

Once again, one could argue that anyone is an athlete via lexicon. However, based on the widely accepted concept of an athlete, FIRSTers would not qualify.

[KenWittlief]

so you guys never saw the competitions with the floppy pillows that had to be thrown across the field?

or the soccer balls that had to be thrown into the movable goals?

or the giant dodge-balls that had to be thrown into the goals?

Or the INNER TUBES! Ever try to play ring-toss with an inner tube from 30 feet out?

[Murf the Smurf]

Originally Posted by Elgin Clock

Hey.. if cheerleading is a sport, then FIRST is a sport.

And, to verify this logic, both are/were shown on ESPN; THE Sports Network.

well the spelling bee is on ESPN also

so does that make it a sport

[GB330033]

Though I don't know of those particular games, I would assume that those were human player tasks. Therefore, I assume that you're implying that the human players are athletes, and therefore FIRST is a sport. I'd like to direct you back to my statements about lexicon, and how almost any activity can fit the definition of "sport" and any person fit the definition of "athlete." I stand by the fact that based on the socially accepted definitions of "sport" and "athlete" FIRST would not qualify. It's really simple, just go out and ask people if they believe a robotics competition is a sport. I strongly believe that you will find that very few consider FIRST, and any other competition like it, a sport.

[Bharat Nain]

Originally Posted by KenWittlief

so you guys never saw the competitions with the floppy pillows that had to be thrown across the field?

or the soccer balls that had to be thrown into the movable goals?

or the giant dodge-balls that had to be thrown into the goals?

Or the INNER TUBES! Ever try to play ring-toss with an inner tube from 30 feet out?

Since:
According to Google: Athlete - A person possessing the natural or acquired traits, such as strength, agility, and endurance, that are necessary for physical exercise or sports, especially those performed in competitive contexts

Yes, you are right.

To add:

The countless hours of skill and hard work it takes to design and build a robot for a competition.

The hours of driver practice and skill it takes to COMPETE.

The STRATEGY required to win matches.

FIRST applies the same concepts sports does - persistence, practice, skill, competence, adaptability, commitment, intelligence, talent, precision, creativity, dedication.

There is also Fantasy FIRST. If FIRST was not a sport why would Fantasy FIRST exist?

Why do we celebrate when we win competitions and matches? When we win other awards?

I am thoroughly convinced FIRST is a sport. Convince me otherwise.

[Alex Minot]

THis is an issue which i have brought up with my school administration. While i personally believe FIRST is a sport, my school apparently does not . Here is a copy of the letter i sent to my principal on this topic and also on varsity letters.

[Eric Scheuing]

Yeah, it's a sport. Don't know if the schools count it, but you know, that saves us fees...

[IraJason]

I would have to say, for a pep rally meant to introduce all the 2006 sports teams and having our robot be the first thing to make an appearance, I would have to consider FIRST to be a sport...

or at least the people who come up with our pep rallies think it is...

[663.keith]

I found a unique website that has a sort of a scoring system to determine if something is a "sport" or not. I am in no way saying this is official or that I agree with it completely, but it seems to be pretty well made. the website can be found here .

*note, this is my numbers I am putting in here, if you disagree, that is fine, this is only what I think

Physical Exertion (30 pts)
Conditioning Factor: 2
Toll Factor: 0
Lifespan factor: 2
Injury Factor: 0
Who or what factor:1
Total 4


Skill (30 pts)
Practice Factor: 4
Athlete Factor: 3
Body type Factor: 5
Equipment Mastery Factor: 6
Equipment Contribution Factor: 0

total: 17

Rules (10 pts)
Determining the winner: 10

Total: 10


Competition (30 pts)
Physical Contact Factor: 0
Offense/Defense Factor: 6
Interaction Factor: 0
Environment Factor: 2
Head to Head factor: 6

Total: 14


TOTAL: 46

The website states that anything greater than 75 is a sport, so by this definition, FIRST would not be considered a sport. I would have to agree that FIRST is not a sport just in the fact that the primary competitor is not moving the entire time, less the small amount to move joysticks. Personally, I think that anything where the main competitor barely moves by his own power should not be considered a sport. This quickly eliminates NASCAR, horseback riding, and sadly FIRST.

after all of this, I really don't think it matters if FIRST is a "sport" or not, after all, "sport" is just a name, and does not change anything about FIRST.

sorry for the long post, but just my $02

[KenWittlief]

you are only rating FIRST from the human perspective

what about the robot? clearly the games ARE a robot sport, when you rate physical contact, harm and injury,

strength (a robot pulling 120A from a 12 volt battery is expending 1440 watts (1.93HP) - which is about equal to the power output of six 18 year old male athletes.)

from the robots perspective FIRST is absolutely a sport. Compare what our robots do vs something like a Roomba, or the Mars Rovers!

If FIRST is not a sport, then what is it?!

[Bharat Nain]

Originally Posted by KenWittlief

you are only rating FIRST from the human perspective

what about the robot? clearly the games ARE a robot sport, when you rate physical contact, harm and injury

strenght (a robot pulling 120A from a 12 volt battery is expending 1440 watts (1.93HP) - which is about equal to the power output of six 18 year old male athletes.)

from the robots perspective FIRST is absolutely a sport. Compare what our robots do vs something like a Roomba, or the Mars Rovers!

Also take into account the BUILD SEASON. If you take into account all of those you will see how you can rate those better.

[kenz9000]

If POKER is a sport, FIRST is most definitly a sport. They should show Regionals and Nationals on ESPN... haha. Id be even more addicted to ESPN if they did!

[Steve S.]

in reply to the above..... here are my numbers

Physical Exertion (30 pts)
Conditioning Factor: 2
Toll Factor: 0
Lifespan factor: 2
Injury Factor: 10
Who or what factor:1
Total 14


Skill (30 pts)
Practice Factor: 4
Athlete Factor: 3
Body type Factor: 5
Equipment Mastery Factor: 6
Equipment Contribution Factor: 0

total: 17

Rules (10 pts)
Determining the winner: 10

Total: 10


Competition (30 pts)
Physical Contact Factor: 10
Offense/Defense Factor: 6
Interaction Factor: 2
Environment Factor: 2
Head to Head factor: 6

Total: 26


TOTAL: 77

77.....which is over 75. ive seen robot to person contact at competition and ive also seen injuries....so thats my pov

[GB330033]

Originally Posted by Bharat Nain

Since:
According to Google: Athlete - A person possessing the natural or acquired traits, such as strength, agility, and endurance, that are necessary for physical exercise or sports, especially those performed in competitive contexts

Yes, you are right.

To add:

The countless hours of skill and hard work it takes to design and build a robot for a competition.

The hours of driver practice and skill it takes to COMPETE.

The STRATEGY required to win matches.

FIRST applies the same concepts sports does - persistence, practice, skill, competence, adaptability, commitment, intelligence, talent, precision, creativity, dedication.

There is also Fantasy FIRST. If FIRST was not a sport why would Fantasy FIRST exist?

Why do we celebrate when we win competitions and matches? When we win other awards?

I am thoroughly convinced FIRST is a sport. Convince me otherwise.

By that, anything could be considered a sport. My sitting here and typing this could be considered a sport. I have a goal, it takes skill and practice to learn how to use a computer and type well, etc. This is why people are able to say "If _____ is a sport, then so is FIRST!" Because some people have so distorted the idea of a "sport" that nearly anything can be classified as such. Just because you see it on ESPN doesn't mean it's a sport. ESPN just as much Entertainment as it is Sports, just look at the name.

It seems to me that most of you want to classify FIRST as a sport to add some sort of value to it, to qualify it, or something, but that's not needed. Remember what Dean said at kickoff? FIRST borrows from sports, but it's something different, something better. "It’s not an accident we are built on the sport’s model, but there’s a big difference, it’s an important difference."

Classifying FIRST as a sport similar to baseball, basketball, etc, detracts from what makes FIRST special. By doing this you also detract from the athletes who choose to play those sports, because you're saying that you are equal even though the most you do in competition is move a joystick or throw a ball. This isn't saying anything bad about FIRST, but claiming that you are equal to a marathon runner is just as much of an insult to them as it would be for them to say "Your robot is nothing, I could build that easier, and better," to you. FIRST borrows from sports, but builds upon them to make something better. They're two completely different animals, just with similar characteristics.

Edit: An afterthought...

I still challenge you to ask people if robotics/FIRST is a sport, and see what they say. I imagine most will either ask "What's FIRST?" or say "No"