Is FIRST a Sport

[Steve S.]

i know quite a few people (including me) are trying to get their districts to qualify FIRST as a sport for more recognition so the main point of this poll is to help...

[GB330033]

One thing I actually like about our district is that they don't classify anything as a "sport," they use the term "athletics." This, of course, disqualifies our FIRST team from that category, but we are treated as a club/organization.

I'm curious, how would this poll help to get a district to qualify FIRST as a sport?

[pwilczynski]

Quote:They're two completely different animals, just with similar characteristics.

I fully agree with the fact that FIRST requires insane amounts of time, more technical prowess and skill than many sports, and even in some cases strategy than sports. However, by my reconing, FIRST is not at all a sport. Here is my reasoning.

FIRST is wonderful, but to be what it is it really shouldn't be considered a sport. Basically, FIRST is a robot sport. The robots need to be 'in shape,' thin, strong and fast. But it isn't a people sport. To be the best FIRST team member in the world you do not need the charactistics of an athlete. And that is one of the things that makes it so special. Because of this, FIRST teams have people who may not be good atheltes, but who might still be excellent strategists and team players. FIRST gives them a place to grow and expand without the physical componant of sports.

Of course this is purely opinion, so if anyone diagrees, burn me (but not too bad)

[EricH]

Originally Posted by GB330033

I still challenge you to ask people if robotics/FIRST is a sport, and see what they say. I imagine most will either ask "What's FIRST?" or say "No"

95% of people will say "What's FIRST?" After you explain what FIRST is (a robotics competition), 99.9% of those will say "like Battlebots?" After you get through explaining FIRST, they will either become hooked and say it's a sport, or hate it and say it's not, or not care one way or the other (probably the majority). The other 5% (from the beginning) will either a) be on a team or b) have heard about FIRST and answer you.

Now, something to consider: Is weightlifting a sport? Yes. OK, then we lift heavy weights, whether they are tools or robots. Is track a sport? Yes. Have you never seen a team racing to get on the field and set up? How about NASCAR? It's considered a sport, right? We are more physical and use more strategy than NASCAR. So, FIRST could most certainly be a sport.

[GB330033]

Originally Posted by EricH

Now, something to consider: Is weightlifting a sport? Yes. OK, then we lift heavy weights, whether they are tools or robots. Is track a sport? Yes. Have you never seen a team racing to get on the field and set up? How about NASCAR? It's considered a sport, right? We are more physical and use more strategy than NASCAR. So, FIRST could most certainly be a sport.

Now, that's exactly what I'm talking about detracting from what athletes do. Weightlifters have to be in near-perfect physical condition. Maybe I'm not a "normal" FIRST participant, but I don't consider anything in our robotics room heavy. I mean, not heavy enough that I'd need to train constantly to lift it. Comparing running onto the field to track? I run when it's raining outside to not get wet, am I suddenly just the same as a track star? NASCAR is the only viable comparison, and while I don't consider it a sport either, I would say it is moreso than FIRST. Why? Contrary to your post, between the maintainance of the car, the fuel conservation, the driving techniques, the skill it takes to drive at those speeds, the considerations that the drivers have to take (surface, temperature, weather, etc), and everything else, FIRST doesn't even compare. FIRST could be a little brother to NASCAR, with the idea of drivers, pit crews, constant maintanance during competition, etc, but couldn't be considered "superior" by any means. All in all, by calling FIRST a sport, you're trivializing what real athletes have to do, just as someone saying that building your robot is easy trivializes the hard work you have to go through for FIRST.

[KenWittlief]

Originally Posted by GB330033

All in all, by calling FIRST a sport, you're trivializing what real athletes have to do, ....

athletes who play things like.....olympic curling?

http://www.olympic.org/uk/sports/pro...p?SportCode=CU

[WernerNYK]

There is the front cover of the Mass Academy tri-fold brochure that reads: "Where ROBOTICS is a varsity sport"

[Michael Corsetto]

I strongly believe that robotics is a sport. It has developed into my sport. I personally am a very athletic person and I had plans of playing soccer in the fall, basketball in the winter and baseball in the spring. But when I started high school I discovered robotics, and needless to say I was hooked.

So I still played soccer in the fall, but abandoned playing basketball or baseball because it conflicted with robotics, and I'm not even playing soccer this fall because I want to focus on robotics.

Ok so anyway, I think that robotics is definetly a sport, just not so much a physical sport as a it is mental one. There are some minor fun physical aspect to the game which do take skill, but a majority of the skill come from the head.

So anyways, our school has spirit week next week, and monday is sports day. So I'll be wearing my team shirt and labcoat, with some saftey goggles on my head and a couple of poof balls in my hands.

Mike C.

[Cody Carey]

( NOTE: these are my opinions... and I'd rather not get bad rep for them )



I believe that first is a club, it is a game, it is a competition, and it is a learning experience, but it is not a sport. Go into a sport store... Will you find and ounce of extruded aluminum, or maybe a speed controller... no, you won't. Also, I don't know about you, but I'm winded after a running a city block, my mile time was 7:40, and I can't do more that 8 pull-ups anymore. I am not an athlete, and I am not in a sport.

More than once, I have had to lift the robot, but I lift it for maybe 5 seconds at a time, and maybe once every 5 minutes (at a hectic time). Weight lifters do this for hours on end, and with far heavier weights than 120 lbs, especially since the 120 lbs is usually shared between 3 or more people. I have also had to make a "mad dash" to get to my driver station on time... but as anyone who has done this while pulling a robot through a crowd can attest to, my maximum speed was 5 miles an hour, hardly a brisk pace. Once again, I am not an athlete, and I am not in a sport.



Another thing. If my friends all of the sudden make a “fantasy walking league”, does that make walking a sport?



I have a feeling that a lot of us here in FIRST only want to consider this a sport so that we can check the little box on a survey that says “I Participate in a high-school athletics program." And pat ourselves on the back for being "just as good" as the football, or basketball players. I won't hold myself to those standards, because I don’t play in a sport, and I am not an athlete. Truth is... We, being children of FIRST, have a much better chance of succeeding in life while doing what we want to be doing than a football player does. Tell me a sport that 3 teams have to band together to win... show me a sport that the athletes are as friendly with their opponents as they are their allies.



And one last point... is this webpage... It gives a brief history of sports.

http://fermi.univr.it/cla/webclass/Facchinetti/motorie/02-03/origin_of_sports.htm

I am convinced that FIRST is wholly different from a sport... Convince me otherwise


P.S. If you do have a problem with this post, please take it up with my inbox and not my rep box

[FightMeImIrish]

First of all, GB330033 is completely correct. He presented logical arguments, and instead of logical replies intended to provoke thought and productive conversation, most of the responses are complete nonsense.

The main problem here is that many people are acting like FIRST not falling into the catagory of "Sport" somehow invalidates it.

The FIRST robotics competition is awesome. It often changes those that participate in it for the better. It is an excellent opportunity to learn things about science and technology that you would not have the chance to learn about otherwise. In my opinion, it has more to offer than most "Sports".

However, all of these benefits and everything else that is great about FIRST, Does not change Reality or the definitions of words.

That being said, a "Mental Sport" is called a game. It is Difficult, Strategic, Fun, and it requires Intelligence and Mental Acuity. BUT, That doesn't make it a Sport. And anyone who thinks that lifting a toolbox makes them an Athlete, has NO understanding of how hard a real athlete works EVERY DAY. Again, that is not meant to belittle anyone, that same athlete would have no understanding of what goes into the building of a robot.

[spadercool]

why would FIRST not be a sport

[pwilczynski]

Originally Posted by spadercool

why would FIRST not be a sport

The following are characteristics of a sport off of Wikipedia

* Target-In FIRST, many of the games (notice that FIRST calls them games, not sports) involve targets. Indeed, there are few that don't, with Stack Attack being the only one that I could think of recently, thought some of the earlier ones do not have targets.

* Display-Like in gymnastics or bodybuilding, the robot generally is made to look as polished as possible to make it seem better than those that are not as polished. Teams decorate their robots with paint and colors to make them have a better display.

* Strength-There is a lot of strength involved in FIRST robotics. The robots have at different times been required to pull goals back and forth, do chin-ups on the bar and even this year throw balls at a large distance.

* Combat-Of course FIRST has a combat characteristic; it involves teams fighting one another. Robots smash, tip, and occasionally ram other opponents.

* Court-The court in FIRST is always clearly defined, with alliance stations, goals, and other GAME elements clearly defined. There are even penalties for being at certain places in the court at different times.

* Team-Finally, FIRST has incredible team dynamics. Robots have to work together on each side in order to compete successfully. Some choose to play defensively and others choose to go onto offence.


From all of the above many might argue that FIRST should be a sport. All of these dynamics are present. However, there is one key difference. All of these things occur through the robot. Not including the human players, all of the human team members are quite passive when compared to the robots they control. Thus, this makes a case that FIRST would indeed be a sport if the people were required to do the work. However, because it is the robots who are playing the game, FIRST is not a sport.

**I also do not think that NASCAR is a sport in the conventional sense.

[artdutra04]

Originally Posted by GB330033

NASCAR is the only viable comparison, and while I don't consider it a sport either, I would say it is moreso than FIRST. Why? Contrary to your post, between the maintainance of the car, the fuel conservation, the driving techniques, the skill it takes to drive at those speeds, the considerations that the drivers have to take (surface, temperature, weather, etc), and everything else, FIRST doesn't even compare.

Yes, this is just my opinion, but I have to disagree with the above statements. As one of the drivers for my team, I know exactly what it is like to be under the spotlight, to get your robot from point A to B while avoiding the opponents, and cordinating your actions with those of your alliance partners.

Examples: Maintainance of the car robot, fuel battery conversation, driving techniques, the skill it takes to drive at those speeds the robot successfully with two drivers, the considerations the drivers have to take (surface, temperature other robots, weather the quantity of poof balls left in your alliance's goals, the number of poof balls in the opponent's goals, how easily the other alliance will will score, etc, and much more!). The amount of strategy that goes into winning is immense. What about alliances? The amount of strategy that goes into coordinating your moves with your alliance partners to maximize your score with your team's abilities is unparallel in NASCAR.

FIRST is an "apples to apples" comparision with NASCAR, and because of the intensity of both they are both sports.

Originally Posted by GB330033

All in all, by calling FIRST a sport, you're trivializing what real athletes have to do, just as someone saying that building your robot is easy trivializes the hard work you have to go through for FIRST.

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with this as well. By calling FIRST a sport, you are not trivializing what real athletes do. In fact, you are calling to light what real FIRSTers do. If someone was to spend 30 hours a week at robotics meetings, staying up until 3 AM every night working on their team's website, teaching themselves CAD and Inventor along the way, being the co-driver for their team, being on multiple sub-teams, and much much more, would you say that this person trivializes what real athletes do? On the contrary, I think this person would prove how much effort really goes into FIRST, and would prove that FIRSTers are not trivializing athletes.

Trying to be humble: All of those describe what I do for my team, so yes, those are based of a real person.

[pwilczynski]

Last year I was a human player. I know the feeling that you get up there. As a driver it is even more so. But as an athelete myself, I know too, that it is totally different.
Being a driver, finishing a 2 minute match, is in no way the same as finishing an 800 meter relay leg (about 2:10). Staying up until 3 a.m. working on a robot is no where near the same fatigue that one feels when coming off of a soccer field after 80 minutes of working yourself. Anyone who says that their entire body is sore from all of their exertation is probably just getting too little sleep.
In FIRST, the is a totally different kind of work from that of a sport, and this is what i think GB330033 is trying to get at. Just because it isn't a sport doesn't take away from it at all. However, trying to compare apples and oranges will get us nowhere.

My 2 cents.

[KenWittlief]

if you think FIRST is not a sport, then what would it take to make it a sport by your definition?

Motor cross, motorcycle racing, Nascar - the athlete is in the vehicle being driven. If we changed FIRST so that the driver was IN the robot on the field, would that make it a real sport?

What about sports like sailing, bobsled racing, or other sports where the athlete is not suppling the energy that moves the vehicle in any way, the wind, or gravity is? How is controlling a million dollar sailboat different from controlling a $100,000 (time and resources invested) robot?

What about sports like golf, where almost no physical strength or stamina is required? Golf is all about skill controlling the motion of a club to hit a ball. How is that different from the skill required to control a machine to move a ball on the playfield?