Flag Burners

[Mike]

Originally Posted by Bemis

I think I agree with the idea that burning the flag represents a wish to destroy what it symbolizes. I believe that by burning a symbol of something, you renounce your belief in what that symbol represents. If they have a real, good reason to do this, then so be it. However, they had better not come to me and tell me that it's their right to free speech to do so, for in my eyes, they just burned away that right. I would also like to wonder why this person, who is, as said, a Canadia citizenn, would burn the flag of a nation he is not resident of. What has he to gain from this? I think he just wants attention, or else he would not be doing this and then flaunting it. The best thing to do with attention seekers is to simply refuse to give them the attention they crave, which you've already decided to do. In my eyes, you've chosen to stand for what you believe in, and thats good. Are you immature for standing up for what you believe to be right? I say no.

To add onto this, I love the irony of seeing Americans protesting against the "evil, repressive, power that is America." Why, if they only knew the reason they can protest is the exact thing they are protesting against.

The world is a crazy place...

[Bemis]

Man........... All that typing and you said what I meant in so few words. I commend you, Mike. And yes, that is ironic.

[MissInformation]

Originally Posted by Karthik

Recently I found out that a friend of the girl I'm seeing, is very proud of the fact that he's burned an American flag. He's a Canadian, and he's been bragging about the deed on his website. To me, this is disgusting and I want nothing to do with this guy. The flag is a sacred symbol, and for someone to desecrate it is completely insulting and disrespectful. The girl I'm seeing thinks I'm completely over reacting, and doesn't see a big deal about his actions. I told the girl that I refuse to be cordial to her friend, and as a result she's saying I'm immature.

My question to you as Americans is, am I over reacting? Or am I right to be incensed by his actions?

You have every right to be incensed by his actions, and I will not say that you are overreacting, however, your reaction does give him "power". Do you know why flag burning is an effective form of protest? Because so many people overreact to it. I don't think you have to be cordial (warm and friendly and sincere, that's what cordial means) to her friend, but if she values his friendship and you value her friendship, you should at least be polite. Sometimes I think people worship symbols more than what the symbol actually stands for. One of the symbols of the U.S. flag is freedom. One of the best things about America is the freedom of being able to burn the flag in peaceful political protest. It's the freedom of knowing I could, if I wanted to, (remember, I said, if I wanted to), go out to my balcony right now and holler out "George Bush is a complete moron!" without fear of being thrown in jail (I use this as an example only and Bush's name only because he is the current leader of my country, I am not trying to insult any Bush supporters nor am I declaring a political affiliation).

Just because I support the right to burn a flag does not mean that I would do it. Personally, I think flag burners are rather silly. (and I especially found the clips of Marilyn Manson wiping his backside with the American flag repulsive on all levels) If they actually make flag burning illegal, the number of flags burned would increase. Here's a link to a website about Flag Rules and Regulations . These are guidelines, not laws. Interesting enough, if you scroll down, you'll see that you are not supposed to wear a U.S. flag as apparel. So a die-hard may think that anyone wearing a tee-shirt with a flag on it should be thrown in jail because they are disrespecting the flag. And George Bush should be impeached because he autographed a flag (writing on a flag being another no-no).

Freedom is intangible and so it is assigned symbols for people to praise, to show off. But it is only an allusion to the real thing. An interesting, if controversial note, is that this flag that represents freedom was first created for a country that was not truly free. On June 14, 1777, when the Second Continental Congress adopted the stars and stripes for the American flag, women were not allowed to vote and in most cases even own land and slavery was rampant in the south (and would get worse before it got better). The fight for freedom was just beginning then and it would be an uphill battle, one that, to certain degrees, still goes on today.

Heidi

p.s. the U.S. history courses I've been taking have fully taken on the American Myth and the American Reality, and where I first thought it would make me more cynical about my country, I've found it's only made me love it more.

[GaryVoshol]

Karthik,

Although I too think it is deplorable that your friend's friend is proud of having burned a flag for a protest, I would encourage you to remember what you have learned about GP. He obviously never learned - because GP says there are better ways to get your point across that don't involve bashing.

You don't have to be friends with this person, and you don't have to hide your feelings. But you do have to act politely whenever you should find yourself around him, if only for the sake of the girl you are dating. She has to consider your feelings as well, and should avoid creating social situations where you and the flag-burner will be forced into uncomfortable situations.

[mechanicalbrain]

So I've thought about this some more and something made me curious. I noticed a bunch of people felt dead set against flag burning, I'm not questioning those people, but what made me curious is what drove those people to those feelings. Ultimately as Billfred said the flag is a piece of cloth, so it's what it symbolizes that drives us. That made me wonder "what does it symbolize?" I'm pretty sure it's not the government itself, maybe some of the rights the government provides but not the government. I'm willing to bet, and if people have other answers I would love to hear them, it's the people we love and our way of life that the flag symbolizes. I think when people see someone burn a flag they feel it's an attack against that symbol. Since these symbols are something humans in general hold as extremely valuable it is understandable that we have such strong emotions associated.

If this is the case, it's important to remember that just because a person attacks something that holds strong meaning for us doesn't mean their target are those symbols. In fact while we may not agree with their method we might easily side with their purpose. All to often we see or read something and draw our own conclusions, us on CD are no different. If any of this makes sense then I urge those who posted that they were steadfast against flag burning not waver on that view but maybe try and understand the reasoning behind such actions. It's hard to disassociate an action with the meaning behind it but sometimes essential. The only reason I feel super motivated to post this is because it extends past this one topic and situation. Also I wanted to hear from people who have such strong feelings, what does it mean to you? I personally have trouble drawing meaning from objects and im trying to understand why it inspires people. Any insights?

[KenWittlief]

Simple: with our country and governement established and set up the way is it, our flag may stand for things like freedom and sacrifice

but what it literally represents is what America is: We the people.

The flag represents me, my family, my ancestors, my community, the people I work with.

There are 300 million people in the US, and there is one president, one admistration in authority at any given time. If someone wants to protest against the current president, the administration, or the government in general, thats fine with me

but the Stars and Stripes is not the flag of the government of the US, its the flag of the people of the US.

[Bill Moore]

Originally Posted by KenWittlief

Simple: with our country and governement established and set up the way is it, our flag may stand for things like freedom and sacrifice

but what it literally represents is what America is: We the people.

The flag represents me, my family, my ancestors, my community, the people I work with.

There are 300 million people in the US, and there is one president, one admistration in authority at any given time. If someone wants to protest against the current president, the administration, or the government in general, thats fine with me

but the Stars and Stripes is not the flag of the government of the US, its the flag of the people of the US.

Ken hit the nerve here.

If you burn an image of the president in effigy, you are voicing protest against the policies of the current administration. People may disagree or find it a distasteful display, but the overall reaction is much less emotional.

However, if you burn a flag in protest, it is more akin to denouncing us as a nation. You belittle the sacrifice of those who have served and/or died to make and sustain this country. A sacrifice that we acknowledge and honor three times each year: Memorial Day (last Monday in May), Independence Day (July 4th), and Veterans Day (November 11th). You are making a statement that the world is better off if the United States did not exist.

Now the burning of the U.S. flag is not an illegal action (and certainly not in Canada by a Canadian citizen). But what has this person accomplished other than to try and impress someone else by bragging about it. Has he conveyed the cause of his displeasure to us? One of the great things about our population is we do listen to complaints voiced by others. We the people influence which policies we should be pursuing every time we step into a voting booth and select our representatives. If this young man would like to see our policies change, he needs to be more direct as to exactly what he protests.