Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?

[Cory]

Originally Posted by pyro20911d

Yesterday when making a post about rookie teams I got walked all over


What Does everyone think? After getting trampled and receiving -120 rep points i could use a little help

I think you need to learn a bit about behaving yourself in public.

If you come on here and say "Do you hate rookies like you do freshmen? I know they don't all suck, but most do", you should be fully aware that many people will not like what you've said.

When you make comments like that, you make yourself and your team look stupid. If you want to talk with your friends about how much everyone sucks, feel free. But don't come on here and do it, where the whole goal is to make rookies/new people comfortable in a community where we can all share information.

[Joe Johnson]

You bring up a lot of good points.

I believe that the organizers and moderators and everyone associated with these fora are worried about how to manage this and how to strike the right balance.

It has gotten harder and harder as the shear number of posts gets too big to read without making a full time job.

I think some of the problem comes from variations in moderator style.

Shear numbers dicated that we've had to open up the moderation to a larger number of people. This has lead to some variation between what moderators accept. We try to use similar standards, but it is not easy to get a group of people to all rule identically.

So... ...do we need to get a little thicker skin? Maybe.

Are neg. rep points a problem? Probaby yes, in some cases.

Do we need to open the fora up to all comers and all comments? No.

This thread is a good opportunity to think about how we can improve.

I think we can all support more free speech if there is a general concenus among ChiefDelphi.com users that yelling "FIRE!" in a crowded theater is not an acceptable use of that freedom.

Joe J.

[Andy Grady]

Originally Posted by Joel J.

If you say anything other than what everyone expects you to say, then you will be reacted to. If you calculate well, and determine what words would be most effective, then you'll float upstream.

If you must say what's on your mind, then you may have to learn to do it well. That is, you have to convince everyone that what you think is actually the way to go. You do this by presenting your ideas exactly how everyone expects to hear them (psst, they don't have to be valid, they just need to be said properly).

Its really simple, but it makes my stomach churn, because I have special word for the action..

Ya know, I often think that we as FIRSTers often get wrapped up in the "lets change the world through gracious professionalism" way of life. It often shows here on Chief Delphi, and people tend to take a post for what is said instead of what it truely is. I think Joel hit something right on the head with his response...and whether we like it or not, its the truth. The FIRST community as a whole kinda has its own way of speaking, thinking, and acting. Often when an individual says something that might be contraversial or edgy, they get flamed because it goes against your typical "normalcy" found on this board. Take for instance Pyro's post. Valid point and conversation topic...just horribly said. Unfortunately as a result of not wording it in the "gracious professionalistic" kind of way, the true value of the post got left behind, and next thing you know the thread is locked. People see the wording, they immediately jump to action, clicking the negative rep button as fast as they possibly can, and next thing you know...everything spirals downhill.

My point is this...maybe sometimes along with judging how someone posts, we all need to also judge how we ourselves react.

It does seem like everyone is a little thin skinned lately. Of course that is just my opinion.

[Koko Ed]

I go to alot of messageboards and it is a serious balancing act on how to conduct the board.
I call CHiefdelphi the Clean Room because it's like a pure environment here. There is no trolls (a HUGE messageboard problem) and the drama threads are really minor annoyances (try any thread on race and religon and watch things get ugly fast).
About the only other messageboard that was "on course" as CD is CG Talk which is all business. On other boards the poster don't repsect one another. Often engage in name calling and thread hijacking commonly, insted of debating like ratinal adults. Will resort to posting mocking threads or even vulgar images to belittle other poster and have multiple accounts so they can engage in trolling.
Yeah alot of what the mods have to do may seem like mind control but if the mods weren't here, believe me, CD would be a VERY unpleasant place to be.

[stevek]

I have gotten annoyed this year and last on almost every post I had. It makes it harder and harder for me to make the time to come here. There are a lot of very smart students that are savy and computer literate, Yet some have no true real world experience. I have owned my own company for over ten years and support dozens of other compaines in Video/Web/Graphic Design/ and Multimedia Technologies. I often stick to forums on these topics. I feel everytime I post a technique or solution to a question, I get lambasted. Recently A user made a new tread on Web Hosting for FIRST Teams- So after his sales pitch, I posted a reply that didn't discount his offer but offered an alternative- By the end of the page- I got told that my sugested company was no good (by somone who admiting to having no experience with the company- go figure) and then I was told if I didn't want the first guys company than just don't use it. I was furious. I couldn't believe that I couldn't make a sugestion without being jumped all over. I find the same when people talk about different programs. I get people that are religious about some free download or some "in-thing" and my time tested professional sugestions (which offen offer different price range solutions) gets destroyed by people that have no real experience.

I'd love people to be more tolerant and take sugestions as just that. I'd also love people with no experience on subjects to refrane from being so adiment. Its ok to have oppinions- but why attack everyone elses who differs.

Good luck as the weeks wind down.

[JakeOfIron]

On CD, as in life, you have to say what you want carefully, (and it's a lot easier on CD, where you get to look over your words before you post them) but at the same time, if we spend all our lives trying to sidestep offending someone, we never get anything done. Did Dean Kamen worry about the minority that would hate Segways when he designed them? No, he thought about the people that would benefit from them!

And though I hate to say it, because I know in life I've offended a lot of people for blurting something out before I thought about it, but Pyro, your thread was a little offensive. Maybe if it was something like, "Are rookie teams treated like freshmen," fewer people would have been irritated. As is, I think you got more bad rep from freshmen who took offense at the negative connotation you put on their name.

But like I said, we all say and do dumb things, me especially, and sometimes all you can do is apologize.

[Cody Carey]

Originally Posted by Cory

I think you need to learn a bit about behaving yourself in public.

If you come on here and say "Do you hate rookies like you do freshmen? I know they don't all suck, but most do", you should be fully aware that many people will not like what you've said.

When you make comments like that, you make yourself and your team look stupid. If you want to talk with your friends about how much everyone sucks, feel free. But don't come on here and do it, where the whole goal is to make rookies/new people comfortable in a community where we can all share information.

OK... I don't know about you but because one person makes a mistake becaue he is new to a forum... I don't pass judgement on an entire team !!
I also don't appreciate the fact that in a passive way, you called both Pyro, and team 306 stupid. We people on chiefdelphi ARE SUPPOSED TO BE EACHOTHERS FRIENDS, and therefore we are supposed to be able to talk to eachother about subjects that don't really offend anyone. Also, Pyro is a rookie/ new person to this forum... Do you think that -120 rep points made hime feel comfortable or welcome???? No. I tried to help him, but my meager 13 positive rep points did absolutely nothing. As can be expected.

Aren't you glad that I didn't give you negative rep for posting something that I didn't like?

Remember, Being on this forum for a long time lets you learn not to post truly what you feel, but a watered down version of it so that you will not get flamed ( not exactly Right in my eys, by hey, Who cares right?)... Pyro hasn't learned this yet.

[meaubry]

Good question -
I'd have to say that some are and some are not.
Some just want to protect the integrity of the website.
Some just want to keep the threads topics above the flame wars and name calling level.
Some use the ability to negatively rep a poster to send a message.
Some have never used negative reps (me for one).
Every year someone (usually a rookie or trouble maker) gets slammed with negative rep after posting comments that match what we have warned everyone about (see the stickies all over the place???).

I have advocated on many occasions to reduce the number of forums - particularly the ones where the flame wars and troublesome posts usually turn up (Chit Chat, in particular) and I am continually reminded that the posts wouldn't go away - they would be posted on a different inappropriate forum. So, we leave the troublesome forums "out there".

Every year, we hope that the new visitors (not always rookies) read the advice that our long standing users have provided and take heed in the warnings about what and how to post (behave) in order to keep things operating smoothly.

Most of the time - it goes pretty well, but once in a while we have moderators that have to deal with issues.

I do understand the protective nature of the folks that want this site to be managed "within" and at a standard that their grandmother would be proud of - the mantra of a very smart person associated with FIRST. I'd like to think that we do everything we can to do just that.

In closing, I also recognize that "new folks" that may not be aware of "how it works" on this site might need a break for a short while until they read the sticky posts and get used to what the expected behavior is. So, I will inquire to our web master what it would take to modify the rep capability so as to limit the amount a person can get, based on the certain criteria (time as a registered member, number of posts, ect.)

I'm sorry that you got so many negative reps from that post about "freshman" - my advice is to try and make sure that what you post won't be taken as objectionable by others, and to keep using this website as a tool to improve your overall FIRST experience (it really can be a valuable resource if used properly).

Mike Aubry
Engineering Mentor Team 47

[Madison]

Originally Posted by Cody C

Remember, Being on this forum for a long time lets you learn not to post truly what you feel, but a watered down version of it so that you will not get flamed ( not exactly Right in my eys, by hey, Who cares right?)... Pyro hasn't learned this yet.

I've been on these forums since the second day they were live and used the old forums before that. I have not once posted a watered-down version of anything and I certainly don't go out of my way to placate people. If you take the time to construct intelligent, thoughtful arguments, there is nothing to 'flame', simply put.

Is ChiefDelphi too sensitive? We largely close threads that have no demonstrated useful purpose and did that here. In response, the original poster says that we need to toughen up and deal with things better? I think a quick glance into a mirror may be appropriate.

[Cody Carey]

NOTE: I didn't write this to make people angry, so please don't read it as though I did, I just wrote it to Try and show my opinion on some touchy matters




Quote:
Originally Posted by M. Krass
I've been on these forums since the second day they were live and used the old forums before that. I have not once posted a watered-down version of anything and I certainly don't go out of my way to placate people. If you take the time to construct intelligent, thoughtful arguments, there is nothing to 'flame', simply put.

Is ChiefDelphi too sensitive? We largely close threads that have no demonstrated useful purpose and did that here. In response, the original poster says that we need to toughen up and deal with things better? I think a quick glance into a mirror may be appropriate.






I have ... numerous times . Those of you who haven't had to do that haven't because you have been here since the beginning, People see eleven bars of positive rep and say to themselves "Wow, they are a tank, what can my 6 negative rep points do?". So you guys pretty much have nothing to fear on this forum.

I assure you that Doug (pyro) was not trying to aggravate anybody with that post, and he was in fact just trying to make friends in an unfamiliar place by posting a thread about a subject that he thought he would have similar opinions on as a lot of other people. This much is obvious... and If Someone cannot see this, then they are in fact "thin skinned".

Or maybe they just want to reprimand someone on the forum so that they can get good rep points for doing it... either way... It is something that should be changed, because I don't care what anybody says... everything is political, even if it is rooted in GP.

In real life... There is no Negative rep, you can't close a person's Ideas like you can a thread, and you DO have to learn to live with Ideals that may be different than your own. That's what a lot of us (me included) on chiefdelphi have to learn to deal with, whether we like it or not.


And once more... If you have a problem with this post, please take it up with my inbox and NOT my rep box.


I thought about this quite a bit... And it is at least 50% intelligent

[Billfred]

Originally Posted by Cody C

In real life... There is no Negative rep, you can't close a person's Ideas like you can a thread, and you DO have to learn to live with Ideals that may be different than your own. That's what a lot of us (me included) on chiefdelphi have to learn to deal with, whether we like it or not.

I beg to differ. There are red and green dots in the world--but the stakes are far higher.

I live in Preston College here at USC. I do a lot of things, from being a member of the Selection Committee to running the web site. All of these things lead to a positive reputation amongst the folks who run the show, which has come in handy when I need something like a job reference. That reputation has paid off for me, as it's led to being able to launch other things in the building.

Now, suppose I go two doors down, bang on the Principal's door, and start cussing him out. Not only will I immediately be unable to do anything of value for the building, but I'm willing to bet that I'll also find myself in the falling-apart Towers as one of the final residents before they get torn down in the summer.

Similarly, suppose that I'm applying for the job at Apple. While in the interview, I start ranting and raving about how the iPod is going downhill and PlaysForSure is going to own everyone and that Steve Jobs needs to quit with the turtlenecks already. (Those aren't my real opinions.) Not only am I going to lose any chance of getting the job (and thus that source of income), but the word also gets around that I have this attitude. Next thing I know, it's a whole lot harder for me to get a job in the town.

Moral of the story? Think before you start saying things. This very post went through two or three revisions to make the points clearer--and if you apply it to anything you say or do, you'll be better for it.*

*Of course, there comes a point where you have to shoot the linguist and say the darn thing.

[Chriszuma]

I just think it's kind of funny how that happened; he managed to offend the group of people who have the least experience with the reputation system, and are therefore most likely to give negative reputation.

[Cody Carey]

Originally Posted by Billfred

I beg to differ. There are red and green dots in the world--but the stakes are far higher.

When Two people have a dissagreement, does a red dot appear over one of their heads that lets every single person that sees them know that "He is a bad person because he has a red dot above his head, no. "reputation in real life is between two people... also, You didn't comment on the thread closing that I mentioned, yet you still told me to think about what I post... I just want to let you know that it took me at least 6 diffeerent revisions of that post to get one that was fit for this forum.

[Adam Richards]

Originally Posted by Cody C

When Two people have a dissagreement, does a red dot appear over one of their heads that lets every single person that sees them know that "He is a bad person because he has a red dot above his head, no. "reputation in real life is between two people... also, You didn't comment on the thread closing that I mentioned, yet you still told me to think about what I post... I just want to let you know that it took me at least 6 diffeerent revisions of that post to get one that was fit for this forum.

Not necessarily. The op/ed section of a newspaper is quite useful for this function. If a writer goes out and publically criticizes a person, the person's reputation and credibility can be seriously harmed as a result.

Also, Billfred was talking about red and green dots figuratively, not literally.

[Steve W]

Originally Posted by Cody C

When Two people have a dissagreement, does a red dot appear over one of their heads that lets every single person that sees them know that "He is a bad person because he has a red dot above his head, no. "reputation in real life is between two people... also, You didn't comment on the thread closing that I mentioned, yet you still told me to think about what I post... I just want to let you know that it took me at least 6 diffeerent revisions of that post to get one that was fit for this forum.

Sorry to rain on your parade but reputation is not between two people. I have worked for 31 years in a company where your reputation arrives well before you do. It doesn't take long to lose a good reputation but it takes years to get it back. I have learned that hard way that there are ways to speak your mind and still have a good reputation. It is a skill that your must learn and the sooner the better if you plan on succeeding in the business world.