Girls Vs. Boys

[haywirerobotics]

Yea, I was just curious why most FIRST participates were boys? Any reason why FIRST appeals more to boys than girls?

[BlackRoboDragon]

Don't know, we have 3 girls I think. I guess it's because robotics seems like more fun to guys than girls, you know, the mechanical is what people think of first, and as far as I can tell, there are a lot of girls that don't like doing that kind of stuff. (sorry if this seems offensive to anyone, just stating from experience)

[Jimbo5051]

I think that it is because ofthe difference in carrer choices between girls and boys.

[Winged Wonder]

not necissarily.

i dont have the exact demographics, but i'd say that my team (which has about 70 people or so in it) is comprised of about half girls. and NO, not all of them are related in public relations.

half of our pit crew is female (usually its completely girl-dominated) and a lot of the people working on machining and wiring and all of that wonderful stuff is about even in a boys to girls ratio.

i guess the reason why Robotics seems more male-dominated is because society generally expects guys to go out and build robots, and do manly things like that... yet for women they expect for us to grow up to design clothes or something like that. not that there is anything wrong with that, but its more acceptable if a girl becomes an interior designer rather than a guy, and a guy becomes a mechanical engineer instead of a girl. i guess thats unfortunately how life works... but thankfully, FIRST is working to change that sterotype.

personally, i love all aspects of FIRST. i'd love to be on the Pit Crew and work on the robot--hardly anything facinates me more than how things work (future Physics major here)--yet because i've got strong stills in communication and leadership and writing, i'm stuck doing a lot of the Public Relations and Chairmans Award things. its not that i Mind terribly, because i don't.... i guess it just has to do with individual strengths and weaknesses of each individual and like what Jimbo5051 said, their carreer choices. but FIRST definitely can help change those... i know if i had not joined FIRST i probably would have gone on in life to be a boring Author... but working side-by-side with NASA engineers, i've reevaluated what i want to do with my life.

but i'm ranting... this is just my two cents, hope you enjoyed it.

[nehalita]

You know, honestly, I have no idea.

I go to a normal public high school + medical magnet + engineering magnet. In the medical magnet, you have a handful of guys, in the engineering magnet, you have a handful of girls. The funny thing is, most of the magnet kids end up in the same science and math classes. The imbalance is beyond noticable yet it seems "normal" to have an imbalance.

I try to make sense out of it but the more I try, the more confused I get.

One thing I do notice is that girls might have a hint of intimidation (speaking from first person). I was intimidated to initially enter robotics, then to become active, and finally to try the mechanical and electrical side of robotics. I was afraid that i "didn't have what it took" and opted for the fundraising, writing, speaking, and managing jobs which I enjoy but I felt I was limited to those roles. With the help of some mentors from my team, I got to try the mechanical and electrical jobs and loved it.

I think I got off topic. So, let me just sum it up. I don't know why this happens but I think it's a pity. Woodie Flowers once said, “We need more women in engineering. Not only because it is fair, but because you bring to the profession something badly needed. You think differently and on average, have more empathy. That leads to better products, more ethical behavior, and a more gracious workplace. Especially
in the developed world, we need much more than "go analyze this" engineering. Women will affect the future of engineering." I agree.

[sciencenerd]

One thing I think would be very pertinent to this discussion is some statistics on how the ratio of boys to girls on FIRST teams have changed since it was founded. I won't dare to guess, but it would be quite interesting to know.

I agree with nihalita that it seems some girls are intimidated by the fact that the guys are dominating the team's mechanical side of things. I never really thought about it last year, but this year my team has had a remarkable influx of girls, and I have wondered why that is. To me, the most likely explanation is because last year we had several girls on our team who were very involved on the mechanical as well as the spirit side of things. This year, others have come to see what the club has to offer, usually through the referal of a friend on the team. When they see fellow girls doing that type of thing, it helps them realize that robotics is not just for guys, they are able to do this as well.

Any girl who is willing to go out on a limb and join a FIRST team even if the guys are dominating it, my hat is off to you! I don't know if I would be brave enough to do that.

[Joe O]

First of all, you have 70 people on your team!?<edit> I will say that our team does have about a fifty-fifty split with girls and guys. We have two girls ... Ouch... Anybody have any tips for recruiting? At this point we'd be willing to take cadavers. Hell, a dog that could fetch the crescent wrench would be great. Now to answer the question, it is all in the social conditioning. When you say "robot" people think a) Battle Bots, b) Transformers or c) Mech Assault. Now think, which demographic are these aimed toward? It is by and large males. <edit> This of course is something that is unconscious, to say the least. But really, the word robots (as well as remote control whatever) is just marketed to males so they are more naturally interested. Basically, we need to androgenize our marketing schemes if we really want to androgenize the workforce.

[Wetzel]

Originally Posted by Joe O

This of course is something that is unconscious, to say the least. But really, the word robots (as well as remote control whatever) is just marketed to males so they are more naturally interested. Basically, we need to androgenize our marketing schemes if we really want to androgenize the workforce.

It goes FAR beyond marketing. What toys did your parents get you when you were younger? How are are women presented in the movies, in popular culture? That is some of the basis for the institutionalized power that our society has for men over women, and some of the basis for the institutionalized discrimination. Did your dad work and your mom stay home with the kids? You grew up with that as normal, so a women going to work rather then working as a mother is abnormal to you. You may not actively think that, but it is an intrinsic part of your worldview and so shapes your perception.

We don't need others to change to reach equality, we need to each understand and actively work against the stereotypes that we have ingrained in ourselves.

Wetzel

[nehalita]

Originally Posted by Wetzel

It goes FAR beyond marketing. What toys did your parents get you when you were younger? How are are women presented in the movies, in popular culture? That is some of the basis for the institutionalized power that our society has for men over women, and some of the basis for the institutionalized discrimination. Did your dad work and your mom stay home with the kids? You grew up with that as normal, so a women going to work rather then working as a mother is abnormal to you. You may not actively think that, but it is an intrinsic part of your worldview and so shapes your perception.

We don't need others to change to reach equality, we need to each understand and actively work against the stereotypes that we have ingrained in ourselves.

Wetzel

Yup, this is known in psychology as a Gender Schema (Wetzel described it wonderfully, he knows what he's talking about).

I must admit, I was encouraged to enter the field of engineering and that's why I am here. I was talking to my friends from the medical magnet yesterday and many of them said they didn't want to go into the field but their parents say so. When I talk about robotics, they say "wow that's so cool! I wish I could do that" and yet... what they don't realize is that they can (they are always welcome to our robotics meetings). So what's the gap between wanting to do it and actually doing it? For me it was intimidation. It's even more intimidating when you are in "foreign territory."

Example: I am an outsider female thinking about joining the robotics team. This is what's going through my head. "It sounds great but what's the chance that someone is going to hand me a wrench? Why would they even bother to explain anything to me? What if they just leave me behind because I'm not strong enough??"

Of course, this line of thought is far from the truth. I know the majority of the teams will reward any enthusiastic student with the opportunity to learn and work on the robot. But it's just that initial step! It's just getting up and saying "i want to do something!" It's simple for the more aggressive people but when you are meeting people who are all predominantly male... it takes guts!

What I noticed, after asking many people, is that word of mouth does wonders. If a girl can tell another girl that they actually do what they want and have a great time, what could go wrong? So this last note is a call to all you girls, SPREAD THE WORD! What do you have to lose?

[side note]: This topic has come up many times and it seems to be a topic that never dies. But I think this happens for a reason. That's why I still post about it and why I still voice my opinion. If one more person can be inspired by one of these posts, then I think it's worth it.

[Loki1989]

we have three girls on ou rteem all of them are going with us to our competition i think its because computers and the building are visualized to be guy things to do but the girls are just as capable at it as the guys are thats me thougght about it.

[KenWittlief]

if you look at the ratio of men and women in engineering, and in engineering schools, there are definately more male engineers in our society, esp the 'hard core' engineering fields like mechanical and electrical.

FIRST reflects this in most high school teams, but in some areas the girls who are interested in engineering are more likely to join a team than the guys are. I think because they see this as an opportunity to get their foot in the engineering door.

There are many teams where its 50:50, and some with more girls than guys.

[Ebolagirl]

We, society as a whole, seem to think that nowadays much of the gender discrimination that was once prevalent in our society has been obliterated. And while there has been much reform (thanks to women's suffrage and events like the world wars that elevated and changed women's roles in society) there is still a great deal of bias and stereotype surrounding gender roles. After all, aren’t little boys made fun of if they show interest in “womanly” things like cooking, and little girls called “tomboys” if they like climbing trees and collecting bugs?

Because of this social dogma FIRST tends to appeal to males more often than females because of this subtle, yet existent stereotypes that are ingrained in children from the day they are born (boys dressed in little blue hospital outfits, and girls in pink). Building robots, using power tools, and having spitting contests are usually seen as “manly” things to do. Therefore women shy away from them, not just because men hold these stereotypes of women, but because women hold them of themselves.

My teammate (who is also female) and I were once ostracized by other maler members of out team for referring to Vex robots as “cute” because they tend to resemble miniature FIRST robots. We were to never refer to a robot as “cute” again (like we listened). This shows some of the attitude that still encircles many aspects of engineering. Robots are manly and therefore not cute.

While there may still be stereotyping occurring in the world of engineering I believe that it is the responsibility of women, not men, to break through it. After all, a woman is the only one who can prove a woman’s abilities. If women really want men to respect them in the world of science, mathematics, and engineering then we need to jump in there and show them we can do it. That is what I did. And that is what all the other great women of science and politics did. Without personal motivation and drive women will remain in a sort of scientific limbo. So to all the other future women scientists, mathematicians, and engineers out there, take your own steps, don’t expect someone (especially men) to give you a ride into the scientific community, because we are, after all, trying to break the cycle of dependency. Perhaps Mattel © can entice little girls to enter an engineering career by mass producing Barbie© Shop, chop saw and all…

[Jimbo5051]

Originally Posted by Winged Wonder

not necissarily.

i dont have the exact demographics, but i'd say that my team (which has about 70 people or so in it) is comprised of about half girls. and NO, not all of them are related in public relations.

half of our pit crew is female (usually its completely girl-dominated) and a lot of the people working on machining and wiring and all of that wonderful stuff is about even in a boys to girls ratio.

i guess the reason why Robotics seems more male-dominated is because society generally expects guys to go out and build robots, and do manly things like that... yet for women they expect for us to grow up to design clothes or something like that. not that there is anything wrong with that, but its more acceptable if a girl becomes an interior designer rather than a guy, and a guy becomes a mechanical engineer instead of a girl. i guess thats unfortunately how life works... but thankfully, FIRST is working to change that sterotype.

personally, i love all aspects of FIRST. i'd love to be on the Pit Crew and work on the robot--hardly anything facinates me more than how things work (future Physics major here)--yet because i've got strong stills in communication and leadership and writing, i'm stuck doing a lot of the Public Relations and Chairmans Award things. its not that i Mind terribly, because i don't.... i guess it just has to do with individual strengths and weaknesses of each individual and like what Jimbo5051 said, their carreer choices. but FIRST definitely can help change those... i know if i had not joined FIRST i probably would have gone on in life to be a boring Author... but working side-by-side with NASA engineers, i've reevaluated what i want to do with my life.

but i'm ranting... this is just my two cents, hope you enjoyed it.

True that

[Andrew Blair]

Personal opinion- In a school with a less than popular robotics team, boys are less likely to be turned off by the geek factor than girls. Alot of it is social relations, and, indirectly as a result of different groups, some people are not exposed freely to FIRST.