an evil, desperate, ramp strategy

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Game Manual

<G17>

Originally Posted by Game Manual

ROBOT Orientation - ROBOTs must maintain their vertical orientation with respect to their starting position throughout the match. ROBOTs may not intentionally tip over onto one of their initially vertical sides and operate with this side parallel to the ground. If a ROBOT is accidentally or intentionally tipped over onto its side, it cannot score any balls in any goals from this orientation.

(emphasis mine)
If I were a ref, I would call this strategy illegal on intent. You are intentionally tipping over onto an initially vertical side. This is explicitly forbidden based on the second sentence. Plus, why would you deprive your alliance of a defensive robot?

[Mike Norton]

it will be very hard to tell if a robot intentionally tip over. Like I said before if a robot is on it side that robot better be able to protect itself. If our bumper are right we have about a 5" zone to push robots. it will not matter how your robot is on the ground up or down we have the right to push it. If your robot breaks well that is because you did not think about the impact it will have once on it sided.

Once again This year your robot is worth points. So some robots will use those points. If that means you having to repair your robot every time it falls over make sure it doesn't

[BandChick]

Has anyone suggested just playing defense at the base of their ramp to stop them from heading up it all together? Wouldn't that just rule out everything you guys are discussing? Then there wouldn't be any question of GP by "accidentally" tipping them.

[Mike Norton]

If you try to defened infront of the ramp you might just get pushed up the ramp

[Nimmy]

about intentionally tipping over, you should note that there is no penalty in the rules against this, it isn't allowed to do it intentionally, but on the other hand, no penalties
my guess is that the rule is made so bots don't have wheels along their side, and tip over at start of match to gain a bigger bot ratio, without needing to open up with complex structures...

IMO, if a robot tips itself over just so it will be harder to move, that wouldn't be reason for DQing, I mean if you want to make your bot into a lump on the playing field, be my guest =)...
however if you do any other action OTHER then being that lump, THEN you will be DQed, since you are not allowed to perform any action whilsts in that position (even if when "tipped-over" your bot can drive around and collect balls)

[KenWittlief]

Nimmy is right, the only stated 'penalty' in the rules for tipping yourself over is you 'cannot score any balls in any goals from this orientation''.

it doesnt say your team will be DQ'd or your bot disabled.

In fact, you could design a bot that could right itself - as long as you dont score any balls while your bot it doing nappy-time you should be ok.

This is a good example of out-of-the-box thinking by nfshuskey86's team.

[Bill Moore]

Originally Posted by BandChick

Has anyone suggested just playing defense at the base of their ramp to stop them from heading up it all together? Wouldn't that just rule out everything you guys are discussing? Then there wouldn't be any question of GP by "accidentally" tipping them.

This thread has changed from its' beginning as folks don't read through all the posts. It began as a robot waiting on top the ramp and tipping robots over as they tried to get up.

About three pages back, the point was raised that it seems to be better strategy to go out and harass a robot trying to get back the full length of the field rather than let it completely cross the field untouched, and then attempting to stop it. With the shooting motors drawing power from the batteries, some robots are going to find it difficult to climb the ramp on their own power. Anything you can do to challenge and slow them down as they cross will just make this a greater possibility.

Remember the teeter-totter bridge in 2001? There were robots who were unable to mount and cross it. In 2003, there were robots who were unable to get up and be king of the hill at the end of a match. We will see similar attempts this year as teams will overtax their systems and not have the power left to get up the ramp at the end of a match. Why wait at their ramp? Think of how much more energy they will expend pushing two robots (themselves and a blocker) the full length of the field, compared to just pushing two robots in front of the ramp.

Folks who are affiliated with schools, you have possibly three on-staff tacticians who can help you strategize about this years game. The basketball coach, the football coach and the soccer coach. There are elements of all three of these games inside this years challenge. You additionally have a bunch of geeks who sit around and continually discuss strategy to defeat an opponent -- the Chess Club. These are folks who strategize constantly. Use your resources! Just because we can build a great robot doesn't automatically mean that we are all great strategizers.

[Nimmy]

Read sun-tzu, I know it opened my mind about strategy, and I don't mean complex things, just really simple stuff that you simply never thought about =)
play chess a lot, or any of these complex board games, read strategy books, books written by famous generals\ancient leaders, really opens your mind strategy-wise...
but that's just be being a fanatic on these things =),

why I think that trying to make a bot "tired" isn't the right thing is because if you don't "hold the fort" up the ramp, there are 2 other bots that WILL go up since you are only obstructing one of 3, if you are at the buttom of the ramp 2 bots can move you out of the way, and the 3rd can go up (and probably one of the 2 also)

HOWEVER, if you are untop of the ramp, you can block all 3 by simply going forward-reverse on the width of the ramp, noone will dare try to go up, and if they try, well =)
*insert really EVIL looking face here*

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Nimmy

HOWEVER, if you are untop of the ramp, you can block all 3 by simply going forward-reverse on the width of the ramp, noone will dare try to go up, and if they try, well =)

True, but not quite. If you are on top of their ramp, all they have to do is form a line across the bottom. You can't get past it, they get 5 points. Plus, all you need to be considered "on" the ramp is to not be touching the carpet, so if they get completely onto the diamond plate and stop, they get even more points. Plus, if someone is smart, they can double-team you and get two up, and then you are stuck because you will find it hard to turn between two bots to escape. (Double-teaming has defeated a similar strategy before, even when there were only 4 robots on the field.) Or, they will block you and shoot over your robot; 5 feet isn't enough to block most shooters, so they get many, many points as you frantically attempt to interfere with two ways of scoring at once...not good.

[Matt Torrisi]

hmmm well i personally am in favor of defence. but dont go knocking people over. thats bad karma and bad taste, just get in their way of going up the ramp in the first place.

i had to tell my team, the ramp is great but stoping the other guys is better. considure this situation: your team has 3 bots on your ramp, theirs has 3 bots on theirs. what happens? they cancel each other out! dont get me wrong, you will get a nice load of points, but you wont go ahead. instead, go ahead and push them ONTO your ramp, or just stop them from going onto theirs.

we built our frame with a 6.5 inch clearence to make it up the ramp, with 4 all wheel cim-dewalt transmission drive, so we SHOULD be able to make it up, only we could do a freaking backflip... so i might be doing defence myself.