Any other teams building more than 1 robot?

[OZ_341]

For the first time ever we have built a twin.
We are very excited to see if it makes a difference. I am just afraid that the results will be so great that there will be no turning back and we will be twinning forever!

[Skolar]

We build two every year. I think it helps. We get our competition bot working, then work out all the kinks in the practice/prototype bot. We also train our drivers on the second bot that we keep here. We have 4 robots now in our shops.

[Koko Ed]

We have 2.
The one that you have been seeing mostly on our photo album is the prototype.

[Bill Moore]

Originally Posted by Michael Hill

The TechnoKats have 2 (nearly) identical robots that are almost complete. We will be shipping 1 and using the other for driving practice.

MOE (365) also builds two bots. The second isn't identical, often using less sturdy structural parts, but it is similar enough to train the drivers. (Since there is no "robot to robot" interaction, we don't need to have the additional protection.) We name both of the bots, our competition bot is Ter-MOE-nator, and this years practice bot is MOE-jo. (One of the mentors suggested that the second bot should be called "Two-MOE-nator".)

[psycho7]

Originally Posted by KTorak

I wish. We can barely afford one robot. Driver practice includes driving from the hallway to the classroom to test code/work on it and then Thursday at regionals.

YEAH! another team that is completely behind schedule. The advantage you have is that you've probably had more code test time than we've had

[Henry_Mareck]

We don't have the manpower or the resources to build a second robot, we usually struggle to get the first one done on time.

[TriggsJr]

Originally Posted by Nita

So that's legal? It'd be nice if my team worked hard enough to do that since our regional is one of the last few...

Laser cutting and bending its not much more time at all. but when it comes to machining, painting, wiring and assembly its brutal.
When you have to make a change you've scrapped 2 parts.

Not to mention ducking your boss.

[Josh Murphy]

yeah we have two robots also we built the practice robot first then we built the competition robot this allows us to get the kinks out on the first one to make improvements to the actual one and we still have to practice so it is a little bit more stressful and during times of the season we thouht we were never going to get done but we are just relaxing today and waiting for the fed x truck so we did a good job. it gives us a break for a while and it is the time needed i have stayed here until 9:00 every night and sometimes 10 everynight this season except for on fridays everyone's day usually ended at 4 to 5.

[fnsnet]

Though I'm sure two bots is advantageous.. I wonder if it's really in the spirit of FIRST to build two. It seems to me that the 6 weeks allotted to the teams from Early January to Late February is meant for Design, Build, Program, Debug, and Train. Having the second bot after the deadline to continue to Program, Debug, and Train is a grey area FIRST hasn't addressed. I'm going to bring this up to a few people and see how people feel about it.

Perhaps some guidelines on the matter will be published in next years game.

As far as the team I mentor, we are a very "by the book" sort of team, and until it is addressed specifically, and we are given the go ahead, we will continue to build only one robot.

[Jon K.]

While FIRST has adressed the programming end of it, they haven't really wanted to touch the rest in the past. Plus teams are not allowed to bring in their practice bot to competitions, another issue adressed in the past. As Dean has also said the competition isn't designed to be fair, and I think there would be a lot of not so happy teams if FIRST told them that they were no longer able to build two robots. FIRST also relies heavily on teams telling the truth and being honest when it comes to the not programming, and I feel that that is fine, if a team wants to cheat then it does nothing but give them a bad cloud hanging over their own heads.

[Marc P.]

The twin robot debate has come up on these forums every season. I come from a generally "by the book" team as well, and used to think it was an unfair advantage to teams who did have the manpower and resources to build a second bot. But I've since graduated (long ago it seems... was 2002 really 4 years ago already?), and now have the opportunity to see the program from the volunteer perspective. What it comes down to is the competition portion of FRC is more a means to an end. The competition is (as was clearly stated in the opening video of last year's events) a celebration (a means) of all the hard work put in over the 6 week build period. The end is students inspired by learning and having fun working together to address real-world problems, and coming up with creative solutions. Of course, most students won't see that (or admit to it) while working on the robot, or competing as students (as I didn't), but once they graduate and look at it from a mentoring or volunteering perspective, it all starts to make sense. I do still see the gray area, and potential to circumvent some of the rules (fix-it window, programming, continuing to prototype and test mechanisms after shipping), but ultimately, if the students walk away with a positive experience with an open mind towards careers in engineering, regardless of the outcome of any given event, isn't that the goal of FIRST in the FIRST place? (no pun intended.. really...)

That said, my team has never had the time or resources to build a second bot. We've always used the previous year's robot to practice driving (we've always used tank drive, and it's been fairly consistent over the years). I'd also go out on a limb and say an identical practice bot may not provide as much of an advantage as most would think. It's one thing to get used to how a robot handles, and learn the quirks of driving any robot on a field by itself. It's a completely different ballgame when it's thrown on a field with 5 other robots buzzing all around with all sorts of cheering/music/noise everywhere. One robot that can score 20 balls in the 3 point goal by itself would get shoved around by a defensive bot, and would be lucky to score 5 in competition. It's all about the conditions of how the second bot operates, and as long as it's not used to blatantly break the fix-it window rules, I don't think it's a bad thing to have if the time and materials are available. Even if it puts some teams at a slight advantage, I don't think it lessens the value of inspiration or the work put in by either them, or other teams.

[joshR515]

yes we did for pratice once we ship our robot, this robot will also become our spare parts.

[ajlapp]

Team Rush builds two. We are not a "HAVE TEAM," we just know how to expertly manage our time, money and resources.

When it comes to machining set-up is always the time killer. So making more than one part isn't all that costly. It takes more time if we have to re-setup and make parts later. With two bots you get all of the practice time you need, and you get to use the entirety of the six weeks to manufacture.

We drove the completed bot for about an hour last night.......we now have two weeks to learn how to actually use the thing!

[pyroslev]

I got into a debate with a by the rules mentor. Their stance was it was overall unfair to even build it. By the statement that was made, all teams with a robot from previous years would have to turn them over due to the fact that they have a robot and rookies do not.

Is it fair to build two robots of the same design and materials so you can keep one: Not 100%.

Is it fair to build a robot that can only be used to tweak Autonomous Mode and drive practice, with no extra mechanisms: If you are in a week 1-2 regional and then Atlanta, Yes. (This is the route I would take if I could)

A benefit, perhaps, is alliances. If you got two so-so teams who have little practice time paired with a team that had a practice bot, that would compensate. Even with only driving practice, it could buy you some time.

Too each is their own motives and goals.

[GeorgeTheEng]

Team 87 is planning on it this year. It be as identical as our BOM, 3-D models, and photo documentation can provide. Only the rudimentary parts of it are built now. Esp since we were still cutting, modifying, and otherwise breaking Diablo last night.

This will be our first, but the reasons were simple. For those that know us, we've had some issues over the past few years with the mentors who drove the construction. They sort of forgot those younger, student-type people who are the heart of this program. Myself and the advisors from the school decided we were taking back the program before my company decided it wasn't going to sponsor us. (Sad but it would have come to that is a year or two) Now we've got a large number of kids who aren't used to the tools. Between that and not wanting to have the kids out too many days for competitions, we decided a 2nd robot made more sense then another regional. It also gives us a good chance to get more students involved and comfortable with the tools.