Please Only Answer Questions if you know the Answer!

[paulcd2000]

Go aaeamdar!!!!!

You are absolutly right. If you only want perfect responses, you aren't going to get any, because no one wants to look in the rules for each and every thing. People have the right to post how they want, and you shouldn't restrict them.

Also note that not everyone is perfect, and this definetly isn't a perfect world.

[lil_longo]

well im pretty sure about that but i could be wrong but who cares its for ppl posting advice

[lil_longo]

HI im sorry and i do agree with you when i posted my last post i was just jokeing around and your right if you arent going to help then you shouldnt post anything up. If you can forgive me i would like to ask for your help and can you give me a positive reputation only if u forgive me.

[lil_longo]

forget about that reputation thing u dont have to

[lil_longo]

im posting to everyone because i was kinda of rude before so just to everyone

[Tim566]

I would love to agree with you on this but life is full of uncertainties its not very often we can be certain of anything because things can change very quickly that is life we can be certain of 2 things the past and the present but the future is always uncertain. so there is my 1/50th of a dollar

[Cody Carey]

I use "I think" or "I'm pretty sure" to cover my butt... I might say "I think that you can have a battery on your robot" even though I am very well sure that you can just to make sure that I don't have to eat my words later.

I have also been known to use these phrases to add a certain feeling to my post, such as sarcasm. ( I think that I do anyway )

And... People are just trying to help, if they give a stupid answer, take it up with them on an individual basis and don't yell at everybody, especially if their apprehensive answer actually did help.

[coleslaw]

Greg is right, if someone posts an answer to a specific question, then that person should make sure that their answer is right with no doubts

[wilsonmw04]

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz

Osc,
I wish I could agree with you but...
Many of those that are posting questions here have exhausted their ability to find the answer somewhere else. In many cases they are looking for quick answers that support their own thinking or interpretation. When the first answer that appears to be in agreement shows up, they stop reading the thread or ignore all other posts that have the answer. In the years that the moderators have been watching the forums I can tell you of many incidents were the answers were not only misleading but downright harmful if implemented. For team members who have not made themselves familiar with reading the rule book or getting a team member to post the question on the Q&A, the answer provided here may get implemented to the detriment of the team. I am particularly vigilant of false beliefs showing up in the motor, electrical or technical forums as these tend to produce the greatest effect on teams and robots. However skilled we are at watching the answers, we are all working on teams and have other interests that may keep us from seeing a post that has received 20 replies in an hour, and all of them untrue.
For a real world example, a poster of several years ago specified that a 50 amp charger not only charged the battery faster, but that it was completely safe. He went on to state that it was allowed by FIRST and that his team had used it for years without any damage or ill effects on the battery. His signature was "electrical engineer". What this post was, in fact, was a young student in his first year on the team after a few days on the electrical sub team, who had heard something about 50 amp charging and filling in the blanks assumed it referred to his teams charger. Readers of that post immediately began ordering 50 amp chargers and some went out and purchased them that same day. All of this took place before a moderator was able to check out the post. Then, as now, 6 amp charging is the max allowed. Any current higher than 6 amps will damage the battery and 50 amps will likely result in battery damage or explosion. Not only were the higher current chargers not allowed, the rulebook specified that only the provided KOP charger could be used. Thankfully that charger did not end up at a regional event where an explosive battery could have harmed other students or caused a fire in the pits. If you don't know specifics hold off posting until a knowledgeable person can respond. If you are only vaguely familiar with the rule book, state "Rule Rxx states ... but I am unsure whether that fits your situation" or "That has been answered in the Q&A" and give the link.

Is this the fault of the poster or everyone who read the post in CD and took it for "fact" without checking for themselves first? The only real way to deal with misinformation on CD is to stop answering questions completely and just redirect everyone to the Q&A forum on usfirst.org, or having every post vetted and fact checking by mods before posting. Neither of these are good options. Personally, the public needs to take EVERY post on CD with a grain of salt. Read everything you want. Weigh the information and make your own judgment. If anyone makes a design choice on their robot based solely on a post/posts on CD and they run afoul of the official rules, they have no one to blame but themselves.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Wilson,
That is an easy statement to make but, there are many rookies who read posts here and have no experience as to who or what to believe. I, for one, want those people to get good information early in the process. Many of them may not be aware of the Q&A or the fact that the rules are updated regularly (Robot rules are up to Rev E as of this writing), or the fact that Team updates are issued at least twice a week. I can tell you from experience (and I will predict the same thing will happen this season), that teams will show up to their first competition without the Rockwell Power block, the required flag holder, the only legal bumpers, the diagnostic light and be over size or overweight. If someone told them they didn't need those things and have traveled halfway across the country to their only regional, they are at risk for not being allowed to play. I won't let that happen at a regional that I attend, even as a guest. If we can head off an issue by insuring that the questions answered here are of the highest quality, it is our duty under Gracious Professionalism to do so. If you read many of my posts, I will quote rule, Q&A or Team Update to support the opinion or I will insist the team ask the question of the Q&A. The Q&A is answered by the GDC when signed as such. There is no higher authority. Inspectors, referees, FTAs and teams all operate under their guidance and direction.

[JesseK]

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz

Wilson,
That is an easy statement to make but, there are many rookies who read posts here and have no experience as to who or what to believe.

The sheer volume of results that come back from a search is daunting enough to confuse even the smartest of rookie teams. And you have a great point about not knowing the validity of the information. It also brings up the point that some posts that are really old may have better advice than new posts, however the old posts are at the bottom of the search results.

When I began learning pneumatics last summer I searched "pneumatics" and looked in the appropriate forum. I didn't know that a valve was different from a regulator, or anything of the sort and I consider myself to be able to figure anything out. Right now, there is so much information on CD that it's becoming increasingly difficult to sort through, and it took a little luck to find specific information for what I wanted to know.

Perhaps during the 08 offseason we could start organising some pre-set search terms and have any sort of infrastructure setup so that they're easy for a beginner of any topic to find. They could also incorporate common misspellings for words like mecanum.

[gblake]

Originally Posted by Greg Needel

...
"i think that is correct but i am not sure"
"I am pretty sure you would be fine with that"
Those posts are useless and potentially harmful.
...
read the rules and search before they post but i have come to accept the fact that doesn't happen, but the biggest problem i see now is people giving wrong information in posts.
...
Thank you all for your time and hopefully you will heed my recommendation.

To those who have disagreed; try viewing the suggestion from this angle.

If you like to think of CD as a part of preparing students for STEM careers; then Greg's advice needs to made a part of that preparation.

Stopping eager exploration of possibilities is not what he is talking about.

Stopping shy students from finding their confidence and their voice is not what he is talking about.

Quite the opposite. Citing authority and knowing that one has properly researched a topic gives one well-deserved confidence.

STEM careers involve mastering the "First Principles" of math, etc; and then accurately deriving from them correct conclusions that are useful to yourself or your customers.

There is no better time to take that process to heart than the first day that you sit in front of a CD thread and consider posting. Half-baked won't cut it when you are building a dam, a CPU, a baby crib, or a Mars lander. Part of educating everyone using this forum should be that half-baked is nothing to be proud of here either.

It is not OK or good to accept or dismiss as unimportant poor replies in these threads. Authors that need to unlearn poor habits need to receive properly delivered feedback. If the task of delivering the feedback reminds one of cleaning the Augean stables; well that doesn't mean it can be ignored or dismissed; it just means that we need to redouble our efforts as we educate the evolving groups of students and mentors who use this forum.

Review some of Mr Lavery's posts about attention to detail, scholarship, and similar matters - One thing I take away from them is a tone that generally agrees with Greg's.

If you are unsure about an answer or if you would be unable to substantiate it with evidence; then point the questioner to a source you would use to determine the answer. That is both helpful and keeps you from tasting shoe quite so often.

Blake

[Captain banana]

I would have to agree with the adults on this one. Posting messages that are either degrading or not helpful can only harm people. Telling someone they aren't violating a rule just because you are doing the same thing and neither of you looked it up in the rules is bound to get someone or multiples in trouble.

[mspoerk]

A little ironic that your exampe question has the wrong answer....See <R52> you can use 5 CIM motors.

[Collin Fultz]

Originally Posted by mspoerk

A little ironic that your exampe question has the wrong answer....See <R52> you can use 5 CIM motors.

This thread was started in 2006 when only four (small) CIMs were allowed.

What's with these old threads popping up?