Imagine: The Next Year's Challenge Unveiled at Championship Closing Ceremonies

[Natchez]

Shhhhhhhhh! I snuck out of the crazy-house for a few minutes to get a hamburger and post this on Chief Delphi. Please don't turn me into the crazy-housekeepers

FIRSTers, you may like this crazy idea if

• Your grades drop or work suffers too much during the build season
• Your children will not talk to you on Valentine's Day because you told them not to talk to strangers
• Six weeks plus a bunch of fix-it windows is not enough time to build your robot
• It is difficult to get the students engaged in engineering education during the fall
• Your team can not attract multi-sport students because FIRST dominates too much time during the spring
• ...

What if during the Championship Closing Ceremonies in April, Dean, Woody, and Dave unveiled next year's game.

For the sake of discussion, let's forget about the culture shock that we would go through with the transition and focus on whether it would be good or bad for the future of FIRST and engineering education in the World. Here are some Pros and Cons to get the discussion rolling.

Pros

• Robot could be built as a classroom activity/curriculum
• Everyone would be watching the FIRST finals and Closing Ceremonies
• More inline with conventional school activities
• Students would not suffer major dips in grades
• No need for the January kickoff
• May be easier to find teachers to support robotics

Cons

• No FIRST off-season
• Too much time to build a 'bot
• Mentors from industry may not be as involved

For personal reasons, I'm not a big fan of something like this but it might have merit to get more students involved in engineering education which would result in a stronger future for America.

Gotta go! They are coming to take me away, take me away, take me away todaaaaaaaayy!

What do you think,
Lucien

[Wetzel]

Originally Posted by Natchez

Shhhhhhhhh! I snuck out of the crazy-house for a few minutes to get a hamburger and post this on Chief Delphi. Please don't turn me into the crazy-housekeepers
What if during the Championship Closing Ceremonies in April, Dean, Woody, and Dave unveiled next year's game.

Gotta go! They are coming to take me away, take me away, take me away todaaaaaaaayy!

What do you think,
Lucien

I think you are crazy. However, you always seem to have an interesting angle...

Wetzel

[Ryan Foley]

Originally Posted by Natchez

Too much time to build a 'bot

There's never enough time to build a robot technically, you can always improve something.

I think this could be a very interesting idea. I dont know how they would manage to hide the field for 4 days in the middle of the Georgia Dome, but I'm sure they could pull it off.

As for no offseason, thats not necessarily true. Teams could still particpate in off season events for the previous game, and maybe they could be incorperated with new game's practice scrimmages.

Things I like:
-less build season stress
-less daily time commitment (great for college students)
-getting behind schedule isnt as bad
-more time to improve things
-actually have the time to fully design the robot in Inventor, then build it (catch problems on the computer rather than in the real world)
-ability to show potential sponsors the project you are actually working on, not something you have done in the past

Things I dont like:
-now I'll have to wait 8 months to see what everyone else's robot looks like
-summer could be an issue for college mentors + going home (although teams could just wait until the fall)
-FIRST staff may be overloaded (fall has FLL, FVC already).

[dlavery]

Unnhhmmm. No. Just "No."

The biggest problem with this idea - the game for next year would actually have to be designed during this year's robot build/competition season, which is already so massively overloaded that it would never get done. But trying to get it finished would cause the GDC members to undrgo an even more severe mental meltdown than they already do. And it would mean that the entire period between Halloween and New Years Day would suddenly be empty on my calendar. And trust me, the very last thing you want to see is me with time on my hands and access to power tools. So, it ain't going to happen.

Lucien, I am SO going to sick Malcolm on you for even thinking of this!

-dave

[Billfred]

Originally Posted by dlavery

Unnhhmmm. No. Just "No."

The biggest problem with this idea - the game for next year would actually have to be designed during this year's robot build/competition season, which is already so massively overloaded that it would never get done. But trying to get it finished would cause the GDC members to undrgo an even more severe mental meltdown than they already do. And it would mean that the entire period between Halloween and New Years Day would suddenly be empty on my calendar. And trust me, the very last thing you want to see is me with time on my hands and access to power tools. So, it ain't going to happen.

Lucien, I am SO going to sick Malcolm on you for even thinking of this!

-dave

While I can see the problems with such a grand scheme, Dave, I have to ask--where is the process on the next year's game by the Championship? Not even touched? Vague, "wouldn't-it-be-awesome-if" ideas? Something I'm not even thinking of because I should be asleep?

[Rombus]

I cant see this hapening, It would just be too tempting to start working on your robot before hand, even if it was just a mock up

[Freddy Schurr]

I am thinking not to even reveal the entire game but a simple 20-30 second video clip of you said a clue on what will happen for the 2007 game. Now that would get people interesting and actually think of what will happen!

[KenWittlief]

one of the primary characteristics of FIRST is that it is the most intense 6 weeks most students have ever experienced

if you turn FIRST into a 52 week back burner project I think most of the impact would simmer away.

How many other times have HS students stayed up for 48 or 72 hours (before ship date) and thought it was the greatest thing they ever did?

FIRST pushes students to their personal limit. In a way, its kinda like bootcamp for engineering recruits.

There are plently of other things students can do for the rest of the year related to FIRST.

[the_short1]

Originally Posted by Ryan Foley

There's never enough time to build a robot technically,
Things I like:
-less build season stress
-less daily time commitment (great for college students)
-getting behind schedule isnt as bad
-more time to improve things
-actually have the time to fully design the robot in Inventor, then build it (catch problems on the computer rather than in the real world)

my $0.02
this is exactly what FIRST is all about, building a robot in 6 weeks is half the fun , the stress, the crunch time, having to make crucial decisons on a whim, unlike real engineering firms that have a much longer deadline, so for those reasons, i DONT like this idea. But its interesting to think about...

[KenWittlief]

Originally Posted by the_short1

my $0.02
...unlike real engineering firms that have a much longer deadline ...

much longer? at my company we are doing 3 month project cycles, thats 13 weeks!

[Éowyn]

We definitely need the off-season for the engineers to recover from their heart attacks.

[petek]

If we did this, where would the students learn that they can do the impossible?

I agree with Ken that the 6-week build season is one of the things that defines FRC - and separates it from FVC and other competitions. I worry that an unpleasant artifact of a longer build season would be greater differentiation between the haves and have-nots. Teams with greater engineering and financial resources would use the time to improve and refine their machines and driver's skills, while the teams with limited resources might not be able to improve that much.

Since there are so many off-season events already, how about an off-season series and offChampionship for those who want to keep it going all year?

[Eugenia Gabrielov]

Simple reply!

If one 6-week bootcamp is good...then 2 or 3 are better.

Fall season game introduced in ATL (or summer season game), then the next game is introduced at the finals of the next season.

Pros -
With multiple game seasons, Rookies entering at the beginning of a 6-week build won't feel as intidimidated as if they enter at the beginning of a 52-week build
Kids can still do the impossible - twice over!
More reach to multisport athletes - some people who can't compete in Spring can compete in Winter.

Cons -
So stressful...

I am not saying this is the best idea, but while we're being crazy, why not suggest it?

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by Eugenia Gabrielov

Cons -
So stressful...

Who's paying for it? Both for teams to compete, and for FIRST to put it on?

[Rick TYler]

I would like to see a fall FVC season as the "JV" program to FRC in the spring. We have quite a few students who even think they would rather work in 2-4 person teams on FVC projects than in a 25-person team on FRC. They are willing to trade off the larger excitement of FRC for a more collaborative, hands-on, and smaller-group experience of FVC. Also, it is a LOT more practical for teams that don't raise $25000 a year. If current costs hold true, it looks like you can field a competitive FVC robot for a tenth the cost of an FRC program.

FVC tournaments also fit in school gyms and smaller venues that FRC. Overall, I suspect that FVC will become the growth program in FIRST, and FRC will continue to appeal to big-bux teams with large, sophisticated mentor groups.

Or is this off-topic for this thread ...