A statistical analysis of the "autonomous advantadge"

[Nuttyman54]

Originally Posted by ldeffenb

they seemed to have quit posting the score visually and I didn't take the time in some of the matches to find the audio announcement, so you might have to look elsewhere to find the final score. Sorry 'bout that!

The final scores can be found on the FIRST website.

[Ryan F.]

Originally Posted by Nuttyman54

The final scores can be found on the FIRST website.

Amusing...apparently there must be some really really good shooters .

From First Website-

Q11 3/2/2006 11:40:00 AM
804 11106
384
540
1610 7

[George A.]

I'd say winning autonomous by either means (either winning it by points, or by getting the randomization in the event of a tie) is a HUGE advantage. Because most teams will unload their 10 preloaded balls in their autonomous mode, so whoever loses autonomous then has to spend time reloading balls. Whereas the winner of the autonomous can reload and be ready to go during their scoring phase.

I can't tell you how many times (as an arbitrary example) red would win and go reload, blue lost and would spend so much time reloading that they can't get a shot off. Meanwhile the red team is already set up and as soon as the whistle sounds red fires up their shooters before blue can do anything about it

Even if you don't get the 10 pt bonus, the way the match is set up, using that 40 seconds for 80 seconds of non stop scoring is unbelievable.

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by M.O.R.T.

I'd say winning autonomous by either means (either winning it by points, or by getting the randomization in the event of a tie) is a HUGE advantage.

Is this not what was asked for? A big criticism of Triple Play was that there was not enough of a benefit for getting the vision tetra.

[David55]

I'm interested in doing such an analysis.
Watching almost the entire 3rd day of VCU, there were many questions that came to my mind about all the different aspects of the game.
The different scoring mechanisms (perfect ball dumper vs. middle level shooter), shooting balls or going back to the ramp, autonomous winning, alliance picking and the outcome (seeing that robots placed 6 and 7 beat robots 2 and 3, and the significance of the robots picked)...etc.

[Greg Marra]

I will create a data collection sheet that can be printed out and taken to Week 2 regionals so we can get the information we need to do a proper analysis. I'll put up both an HTML document for easy printing, and a .xls file for if anyone wants to collect data digitally. All you'll need to do is scan or photograph or type back in the information on the sheet and send it to me and I will compile the master list.

It is interesting that people are saying that when auto was a tie, the team on defense first still won. Once we have a decent set of data to work from, we can start to try to figure out all the variables going on.

[Bill Moore]

Originally Posted by Greg Marra

I will create a data collection sheet that can be printed out and taken to Week 2 regionals so we can get the information we need to do a proper analysis. I'll put up both an HTML document for easy printing, and a .xls file for if anyone wants to collect data digitally. All you'll need to do is scan or photograph or type back in the information on the sheet and send it to me and I will compile the master list.

It is interesting that people are saying that when auto was a tie, the team on defense first still won. Once we have a decent set of data to work from, we can start to try to figure out all the variables going on.

Greg, make sure to include the # of shots taken in your sheet.

Teams that shoot all their balls in auto are obviously aggressive shooters, and may continue to shoot aggressively throughout the match.

I don't care if I only shoot 40% and you shoot 60% if I'm shooting twice as often as you do. I'll win every time just by shooting so much more frequently.

Winning the match may not have anything to do with winning auto, but with the aggressiveness with which the game is played.

[SwitchBlade430]

Even though this is very advantageous, there were a couple of matches in which unstoppable teams like 25 came back and won the match. Congratulations to 25, 103, and 1279 for winning the NJ regional.

This sounds like a really good idea, and I'd be quite interested in getting the data after it's gathered. However, Our team still lost a match after being able to shoot into the center goal during autonomous, and winning it almost every time.

So yeah, Good luck gathering data!

[Master Dictator]

Ok I saw team 25's robot at NJ and I must say do offence but it wasnt that spatacular design or that different from anyother robot but for 1 thing.... Autonomous. No other robot except for 375 could shoot like them. Every match in autonomous they got 9/10 or 10/10. Thats 30 points plus 10 to make 40-0 right from the getgo. After that is hard to make a comeback from that. Luckly our robot got 10/10 most of the time but in the low goal.

[George A.]

Originally Posted by Master Dictator

Ok I saw team 25's robot at NJ and I must say do offence but it wasnt that spatacular design or that different from anyother robot but for 1 thing.... Autonomous. No other robot except for 375 could shoot like them. Every match in autonomous they got 9/10 or 10/10. Thats 30 points plus 10 to make 40-0 right from the getgo. After that is hard to make a comeback from that. Luckly our robot got 10/10 most of the time but in the low goal.

I'd have to argue with you about 25's robot. Yes their autonomous made them amazing, but also they were strong fast and even when they were pushed they could still shoot thanks to their auto-aiming camera. If you don't believe me I'm sure there is video somewhere when in the finals they were almost at the wall and still made an inordinate number of shots.

[Tom Bottiglieri]

Originally Posted by M.O.R.T.

I'd have to argue with you about 25's robot. Yes their autonomous made them amazing, but also they were strong fast and even when they were pushed they could still shoot thanks to their auto-aiming camera. If you don't believe me I'm sure there is video somewhere when in the finals they were almost at the wall and still made an inordinate number of shots.

I am not going to argue 25 looked great, if not amazing.

But, will they be able to live up to the hype against teams from other (possibly more competitive) regionals than NJ?

I guess we will see.

[irishninja]

Don't know what caused it but it happened at Trenton too. There was one match in which McKee's alliance was able to recover from losing autonomous.

[bombadier337]

From my own experience, the only qualifying match we lost was the one where our robot was not prepped before the match properly and our autonomous didn't work. The 10 point bonus is a huge difference is many cases, as it seemed most match scores were around 40 points. It also seemed many alliances could not score in autonomous, so even without getting many points you could get the ten point bonus. Except for 1610 and a few others, most of the high shooters were fairly inaccurate in autonomous, and the low dumpers worked well. Shooting low, we were making about 6 points in autonomous, and we then tweaked it to score 9-10 in autonomous. The only time we lost autonomous when it when it was working was against 1610.

[Ken Streeter]

Winning the autonomous mode was a huge factor at the BAE Granite State Regional. In matches where our alliance won autonomous, we never lost the match. We also never came back to win a match where we lost autonomous.

However, we did have two matches which ended in a tie. (In one of the ties, we had lost autonomous and in the other there was no autonomous winner.)

It also became clear that a real key to winning the autonomous period would be using automatic camera-based targeting in order to be able to make high goal shots despite encountering defense in autonomous. After we finally got our automatic camera-based targeting working (not until the last qualification round match on Saturday morning) we didn't lose any more autonomous periods.