Update #15

[ChuckDickerson]

Update #15 is out. Interesting items are clarification on <G21> (Corner Goal Incursion), lots on <G25> (Offsides), and now we no longer have to use the LED cluster (<R14>)! And, of course, more clarification on the "Fix-It-Windows"! Good grief Charlie Brown!

[Kim Masi]

Its good to know that if a robot tips over the alliance no longer needs a backbot...

[Stuart]

. . what happend to update 14?

[DjAlamose]

Update 14 Thread

Link to update 15

Alot of reminders about backbots. I can understand from all of the penalties that were going on during the regionals. But one thing I don’t understand is why a robot that is either mechanically, electrically, or programmably inept (meaning they cant move) why the robot would not be considered inoperable. So if my team puts a 120 lb weight onto the field and it gets pushed across the line then we are still somehow operable... I'm sorry but I don't like the call that the GDC made on that one.

[Nuttyman54]

hmm...they forgot an apostrophe... 3 inches, then 3 feet then 3 inches again...jeez

First:
"...not to exceed a distance of approximately 3
inches. The 3’ does not include..."

then later:
"Any incursion substantially beyond 3 inches..."

[DjAlamose]

After reading it again I do like the addition about robots and the corner goal. When a robot goes for the corner goal and is pushed into the goal (they may be DQed) the person pushing them is considered to be doing excessive "ramming" as they say and would be penalized. A really good addition!

[Heretic121]

Originally Posted by DjAlamose

After reading it again I do like the addition about robots and the corner goal. When a robot goes for the corner goal and is pushed into the goal (they may be DQed) the person pushing them is considered to be doing excessive "ramming" as they say and would be penalized. A really good addition!

yes it is a good addtion but if the bot gets pushed in they get DQ'ed while the opposing bot may get NOTHING a PENATLY or a DQ... its not a 100% DQ.... not good IMO

[Dillon Compton]

Originally Posted by Heretic121

yes it is a good addtion but if the bot gets pushed in they get DQ'ed while the opposing bot may get NOTHING a PENATLY or a DQ... its not a 100% DQ.... not good IMO

I dont think that a bot that was pushed into a corner goal will be DQ'ed. It seems to me the intent of the update was to make it clear that ramming other robots into the goal will not be tolerated, and in the case that it is clearly a defensive 'bots fault, that bot will be penalized.

I view this to be much like the "high ramming/high contact" rule of last year- technically, if two robots arms were extended in the air and contacted in an overly vigorous score/defense struggle resulting in a tipping bot/unsafe & unsportsmanlike play, both would be penalized or DQ'ed...in practice, however, it was the bot that shoved it's arm in there and instigated the contact that was typically penalized, not both.

[Alekat]

Well the idea that you can't stop someone from scoring when they're at the corner goal isn't accurate. Often if you hit them from the side toward the back of their bot you can turn them a little. Of course the effectiveness depends on how well they built their robot.

[DonRotolo]

Originally Posted by Nuttyman54

hmm...they forgot an apostrophe... 3 inches, then 3 feet then 3 inches again...jeez

It's clearly a typo

[pathew100]

I like the corner goal rule. Sort of like the NBA rule where the player with the ball will not be called for charging a defender if the defender is right underneath the basket. It's too late to play defense once the other robot is right at the goal.

I would suggest that if you want to play defense once they are right on the goal that you try to push them sideways instead of trying to push their robot through the opening!

[devicenull]

Originally Posted by DjAlamose

Update 14 Thread

Link to update 15

Alot of reminders about backbots. I can understand from all of the penalties that were going on during the regionals. But one thing I don’t understand is why a robot that is either mechanically, electrically, or programmably inept (meaning they cant move) why the robot would not be considered inoperable. So if my team puts a 120 lb weight onto the field and it gets pushed across the line then we are still somehow operable... I'm sorry but I don't like the call that the GDC made on that one.

If you know its dead, and not coming back without some work.. Whats wrong with estopping it?

[BrianR]

Originally Posted by Dillon Compton

I dont think that a bot that was pushed into a corner goal will be DQ'ed. It seems to me the intent of the update was to make it clear that ramming other robots into the goal will not be tolerated, and in the case that it is clearly a defensive 'bots fault, that bot will be penalized.

I have to respectively disagree with your interpretation. As per rule G21(below), note the last sentance, with the word any in it. This would seem to me to say that if you go too far into the corner goal, you will be penalized. There is a different rule about ramming, which I interpret to be different than pushing. Thus, any time when you go too far into the corner goal, expect to be penalized. They also make the point to reference extending over the scoring system, for that will artificially inflate the score of your team, and that is definately illegal. Thus, because they have to keep this scoring issue as a nonfactor, anyone who causes this to become a problem will be DQ'd. This is perfectly fine, as this rule has been around since the kickoff, and no team should have built with the assumption that they were allowed further into the goal. I think that this is simply clarification that any time you go too far into the goal, you will be DQ'd.

<G21> ROBOT Incursion into the Corner Goal – Robots should not enter the corner
goals. Incidental incursion into the corner goal that occurs as a result of a ROBOT
pushing balls into the goal is permitted, not to exceed a distance of approximately 3
inches. The 3’ does not include the deflection of the goal panel or structure.
Intentional incursion, for example to use a ball gathering mechanism to drop off balls
inside the goal, or extending a portion of the ROBOT through the goal opening to
activate the ball counting system, will result in disqualification of the offending ROBOT.
Any incursion substantially beyond 3 inches, particularly if the robot extends over
the lighted scoring system panel, will be considered intentional incursion.

[Nuttyman54]

Originally Posted by BrianR

I think that this is simply clarification that any time you go too far into the goal, you will be DQ'd.

It also now states that if you push someone INTO a goal, you risk DQ yourself. This is an excellent addition, because it discourages teams for purposely trying to get their opponent DQed by pushing them in

[Wayne Doenges]

<G25> ROBOT Off Sides - During the SECOND and THIRD PERIODS the ALLIANCE on defense can have at most two (2) operable* ROBOTS on the defensive end of the field (the near end of the field, from the ALLIANCE point of view). If the ALLIANCE has a third operable ROBOT, that ROBOT (the BACKBOT) must be positioned on the end of the field farthest from the ALLIANCE STATION.

Does this mean that the backbot must be stationed near the opposite ramp That's a long way away.