This is a brutal game.

[Starke]

this kind of game gets the crowd going. i know that we constantly had teams blatantly trying to flip us on our back. that is why you need good traction

[Dominicano0519]

If a team rams you in autonomus and totals your scoring mechanism


then you fix it

and the same team does the same thing in autonomus and breaks it again should that count as an intentional malignant ram

[KenWittlief]

Originally Posted by Dominicano0519

If a team rams you in autonomus and totals your scoring mechanism


then you fix it

and the same team does the same thing in autonomus and breaks it again should that count as an intentional malignant ram

it depends. If your scoring mechanism is in the bumper zone, then its up to you to protect it - even if it means you have to face your robot into the railing during auton mode.

[Jeff K.]

Originally Posted by yodameister

We tried extruded fiberglass, but it bent too easily

I'm not sure, but doesn't fiberglass just shatter?

Originally Posted by sanddrag

We severely cracked and bent the faceplate of a small CIM motor.
Is this game being played rough at your regionals? Are ramming or destructional strategy penalties being given? I haven't seen a single one.

We also had destroyed a small cim motor from competition and tweaked our chassis. The front 1/8" 6061 T6 (I believe) aluminum tubing that protected the collector got bent and that tweaked well...the rest of the chassis. It had also made the chain for our collector lose its tension and become loose enough to come off during a match. Besides that, the rest of the support members weren't square any more and so pretty much, all in all, our bot was tweaked, but still could drive and collect, so I'm happy for the most part. Nothing really all that major.

The defensive plays of hitting other robots and pushing them around, whether it be around the field or even on the ramp, are all legitimate plays to prevent robots from getting balls into the center or corner goals. I remember during the semifinals and finals, the game play was getting pretty rough and there were a lot of parts that teams had been dropping around the field like sidepanels and even chain. I heard about a team losing a motor.

There weren't any penalties being given at BAE for unnecessary roughness, but there is one new rule in update #15 about hitting robots while they are dumping balls into the corner goals.

[MrForbes]

Originally Posted by Stonefan5271138

I'm not sure, but doesn't fiberglass just shatter?

Yes, it does shatter, but first it bends and deflects quite a ways, and this was the problem...we had some bolts that got into the roller when the fiberglass bar deflected too far.



the center of the three bars is 1/8" x 1" steel angle iron. The two aluminum pieces of square tubing had been straightened and then bent again.

The roller problem was mostly due to our crash diet because of a lack of a weight budget, we cut the slots to lose weight and that probably contributed the failure....that's life as a rookie team, I suppose.

Fixing this kind of damage is a nice challenge, so I'm not complaining!

[Andrew Blair]

Huh. Maybe it's because we always seemed to be on the forceful side of the matches, but we didn't see too much damage. I would hope we didn't cause as much damage as is being described. Our worst problem was the poof balls- they would get jammed in our #25 chain, and it would literally *tear* the links apart- something I'd never seen before, even in rough matches. We suffed from some dents and such, but no more than usual. Maybe someone from the Pittsburgh regional could comment on the play there?

*For once, loose tolerance and beefy stuff can help you out!

[meaubry]

YES, YES, YES -
I won't go into rationalizing one way or the other because that is not what you asked in the thread, but I will advise ALL teams yet to play in a match, BRING the maximum allowed amount of material to repair your machines.

Even with as robust of a design that you think you may have, with what I've seen, many robots will need massive repairs (drive trains in particular).
The forces being applied when being hit on the side of your wheels WILL bend many of the axles, frames, mounting brackets, wheels, ect.

This game is BRUTAL and its NOT just from impact loads, I fret more about the damage being incurred from the continual pushing from the side of the machines.

[angelc24]

There is definitely a lot of defense this year but I don't think there is any more than last year. Actually, on our robot, nothing huge has broken so far. A few things here and there but they took only about 5 minutes to fix. Last year, every match we would come off with something worse broken.

[Bill_Hancoc]

Not to sway too far off topic but does it seem like there a lot more bots flipping this year or is it just me?

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by Bill_Hancoc

Not to sway too far off topic but does it seem like there a lot more bots flipping this year or is it just me?

Probably because everyone built their robots so tall.
We purposely built our robot short because we didn't want to tip over (and we didn't). I don't understand why everyone is having a fit over thier robot tipping over when they purposely built a tall robot in a physical game. Obviously they valued being able to shoot high over staying upright and underestimated the physical nature of the game.
At the championship it's only going to get tougher.

[Billfred]

From what I saw behind the glass at Florida, it's a very physical game. I didn't see much ramming in the truest sense, but there was lots of bumping and pushing.

Be prepared to get hit. Expect whacks from the other side of the field (as in starting space to starting space). And whatever you do, protect your vitals.

[eugenebrooks]

I don't see the game as being brutal. High speed ramming is against the rules and should be penalized, but you should expect lots of pushing and bumping. Defense has a high value in this game and a shooter that can get accurate shots off while the robot is engaged in pushing and shoving has a high value.

Some robots are designed to collect a large number of balls, climb the platform, and then unload these balls into the three point goal with a high shooter. There is only one defense against this and it requires pushing and shoving from a very precarious perch.

FIRST did a fantastic job in designing the game and the robot rules this year. Except in very extenuating circumstances the bumpers define the contact point between robots and any team that decided not to use bumpers made a mistake both in terms of protection and in their robot weight.

I would like to congratuate FIRST for their production of the best game ever, and in their careful attention to robot rules that limit damage to robots while allowing a vigorous defensive game strategy.

[Jeremiah Johnson]

Uh oh.. I don't like the way this is sounding. Our robot has no bumpers and bumpers are a must?? I think I may have that problem worked out though. Strategically speaking though. Don't expect 648 to go for the ramp at all. I like rough play... but what I saw this weekend on webcast was just absurd. But it's the game. Can't argue with that. I'm ready for whatever comes our way.

[meaubry]

Sorry but I would have to disagree on the "best game ever" comment - in fact, I don't care for it much at all compared to other years games. This opinion, like all others, will vary greatly I'm sure.

I think there was a major mistake this year in forcing defense into the game by creating a time period where ramming, pushing , pinning, and tipping is disquised as "defensive interaction". Can't anyone figure out a game where passive defense is the primary method of territorial defending, instead of a big pushing match? Drivers don't seem to stop at a little bump anymore, they don't seem happy unless they push a team 4,5, 6 feet across the carpet, often into the sidewalls, ramp walls, or ramp.

Yes, justification can be rationalized - we all can read the rules and see what it says. My point is that it appears to me that some of the pushing has intent to do damage, as I don't see any other reason for pushing robots that don't even have a ball in them to score low OR high? I'm not sure what they are defending most of the time. It just looks like "everyone else is doing it , so it must be the thing to do".
In my opinion, Defensive strategies are welcome as legitimate when applied properly, but this game allows the application of defensive tactics to be very brutal and easily overdone.

All in all, it reminds me more of Battlebots, than the standard FIRST competitions that I remember.

[OZ_341]

Well we have not played yet, but we made trip to the NJ Regional and watched the Florida regional on the web.

We prepared for a rough game this year and I'm glad we did.

Although it seems to me that the situation is what makes this game rough, not the players. Plenty of High CG bots playing defense and trying to climb a ramp makes for lots of mayhem.

We are looking forward to playing this year's game.

Good luck to everyone in the weeks ahead!