This is a brutal game.

[eugenebrooks]

I don't see the game as being brutal. High speed ramming is against the rules and should be penalized, but you should expect lots of pushing and bumping. Defense has a high value in this game and a shooter that can get accurate shots off while the robot is engaged in pushing and shoving has a high value.

Some robots are designed to collect a large number of balls, climb the platform, and then unload these balls into the three point goal with a high shooter. There is only one defense against this and it requires pushing and shoving from a very precarious perch.

FIRST did a fantastic job in designing the game and the robot rules this year. Except in very extenuating circumstances the bumpers define the contact point between robots and any team that decided not to use bumpers made a mistake both in terms of protection and in their robot weight.

I would like to congratuate FIRST for their production of the best game ever, and in their careful attention to robot rules that limit damage to robots while allowing a vigorous defensive game strategy.

[Jeremiah Johnson]

Uh oh.. I don't like the way this is sounding. Our robot has no bumpers and bumpers are a must?? I think I may have that problem worked out though. Strategically speaking though. Don't expect 648 to go for the ramp at all. I like rough play... but what I saw this weekend on webcast was just absurd. But it's the game. Can't argue with that. I'm ready for whatever comes our way.

[meaubry]

Sorry but I would have to disagree on the "best game ever" comment - in fact, I don't care for it much at all compared to other years games. This opinion, like all others, will vary greatly I'm sure.

I think there was a major mistake this year in forcing defense into the game by creating a time period where ramming, pushing , pinning, and tipping is disquised as "defensive interaction". Can't anyone figure out a game where passive defense is the primary method of territorial defending, instead of a big pushing match? Drivers don't seem to stop at a little bump anymore, they don't seem happy unless they push a team 4,5, 6 feet across the carpet, often into the sidewalls, ramp walls, or ramp.

Yes, justification can be rationalized - we all can read the rules and see what it says. My point is that it appears to me that some of the pushing has intent to do damage, as I don't see any other reason for pushing robots that don't even have a ball in them to score low OR high? I'm not sure what they are defending most of the time. It just looks like "everyone else is doing it , so it must be the thing to do".
In my opinion, Defensive strategies are welcome as legitimate when applied properly, but this game allows the application of defensive tactics to be very brutal and easily overdone.

All in all, it reminds me more of Battlebots, than the standard FIRST competitions that I remember.

[OZ_341]

Well we have not played yet, but we made trip to the NJ Regional and watched the Florida regional on the web.

We prepared for a rough game this year and I'm glad we did.

Although it seems to me that the situation is what makes this game rough, not the players. Plenty of High CG bots playing defense and trying to climb a ramp makes for lots of mayhem.

We are looking forward to playing this year's game.

Good luck to everyone in the weeks ahead!

[jjdebner]

Slight damage from playing defense at UTC our H- Frame bent at the bottom a little. It didn't affect our ability to pick up balls but it looks kind of funky.

http://static.flickr.com/56/111398204_07f9dc4d23_o.jpg

[Starke]

this kind of game gets the crowd going. i know that we constantly had teams blatantly trying to flip us on our back. that is why you need good traction

[irishninja]

Not only is it just another part of the game, but it definatley makes it more exciting. NOt cheesy exciting like get ready for some robto smashing and then yous ee two robts tap eachother and thats it. This is robotis tipping over, smashing, its more fun for the crowd and for tv viewers.

[YonZ]

well, what can you expect when you've got bots more intertwined than ever, 5 on a side at a time, entire periods defined for pure defense (of which much includes ramming and shoving other bots to prevent them from shooting in)?
i think its awesome action (unless we're the victims of course, then there are gasps and groans)

[Donut]

This year's game does have considerably more defense and ramming than the past. I don't think this is a bad thing though; alot of the more exciting matches the past 2 years have come when we've had to do some defense along with scoring.

Bumpers are a savior this year; the most damage we sustained during the whole competition was during a practice match without bumpers, where a robot hit us head on and shifted our conveyor belt motor, causing us to lose the chain on it, as well as breaking half of the conveyor belt's support and rendering it completely useless. Bumpers prevented any major damage happening again.

This year is a defensive game, but please teams don't get too into it; we had an opposing team that popped up on their back wheels when driving full speed towards us and crashed full speed into our conveyor belt, at least 2 feet up our robot, bending the entire frame in on a place we never thought would take a hit.

[sanddrag]

We tipped over and were repeatedly (8 times approximately) hit while we were down. Stupid move on the part of that team since we were already useless at that point, but it did cost us a motor. The refs said they were trying to position for a shot, but in 15-20 seconds of hitting us while we were already down, I didn't see them attempt one shot.

[Kim Masi]

My father came to watch the New England competition on Saturday and told me that this game was a lot easier to understand (compared to '04 and '05), and that FIRST has made it a lot easier for an "outsider" to understand what is going on. He also said that at just like any other sporting event, there was a bit of contact and a bit of excitement. I think that defense and a little contact is an important strategy in this years game as it is in a basketball or soccer game.

By defining the offensive and defensive periods, it gives each alliance a chance to score and a chance to play defense. What your robot decides to do during your "defensive" period is up to you, but I think FIRST intended on having defense as a part of the game. And as someone said before, FIRST made a big deal about the bumpers this year as a clue that the game was definately going to be high contact and interactive.

[chaoticprout]

Sanddrag actually something similiar ALMOST happened at BAE with us. We were playing against a team with a track that exploded at the base of our alliance ramp leaving only a spot for one robot to go up at the time. We considered pushing them out of the way, but realized it wasn't GP at all, and instead all 3 of our robots went up one by one. It was a pretty good feeling.

[Rick TYler]

Originally Posted by chaoticprout

We were playing against a team with a track that exploded at the base of our alliance ramp leaving only a spot for one robot to go up at the time. We considered pushing them out of the way, but realized it wasn't GP at all, and instead all 3 of our robots went up one by one.

I saw a bot at PNW push a tipped bot out of the way of the ramp, gently but firmly. They didn't slam the corpse against the wall or anything, they just slid it out of the way. I didn't think it was terribly non-GP at all.

[eugenebrooks]

Bumping and pushing robots on bumpers, or the equvalent contact area if a robot does not have them, is an entirely reasonable thing to expect of the game. Bumping and pushing a robot that is on its side, causing damage to the robot, is very unseemly and far from GP. I would hope that teams realize this in the future and act appropriately.

[Darkswordsmith]

Wow you guys are competing in regionals already? Sacramento regional start 3/24, still 2 weeks away.

Geez i feel so isolated from FIRST since we finished the bot.