Pinning? Apparently I just don't seem to understand

[Brindza]

Hello everyone!
Just got back from the Pittsburg regional...dissapointing.

Could someone PLEASE explain to me what is said in rule G24 about pinning. If my comuter is displaying the correct words, i believe that what I think it means is correct.

From the manual that i downloaded it states that you are NOT allowed to pin ANY robot against a barrier or field element for more than 10 seconds.

If ANYBODY out there can help to clear this up for me that would be GREATLY appreciated.


Thank You,
Team 888

[Freddy Schurr]

Yes, once you pin the robot for 10 seconds, the opposing robot must back off. However the robot can continue to pin and the referee will called 10 seconds and then it has to back off.

[Brindza]

Thank You

Also, is G24 the final version of that rule or is there an update somewhere that i missed

Team 888

[Greg Marra]

The rule also very explicitly states "on a carpeted surface" since the ramp and the platform are not carpeted, pinning on these for longer than ten seconds is allowed within the rules (say, to get extra points by keeping an opposing robot on your platform).

[Donut]

Originally Posted by Greg Marra

The rule also very explicitly states "on a carpeted surface" since the ramp and the platform are not carpeted, pinning on these for longer than ten seconds is allowed within the rules (say, to get extra points by keeping an opposing robot on your platform).

On a note to that rule, pinning a robot at the front of the ramp (where you could push them up) still has the 10 second rule apply. It was called at the Arizona Regional and will probably be called elsewhere. I missed the part about pinning against field elements.

[Brindza]

Thank You, Thank You, Thank You, Thank You!

Then could you PLEASE find an explanation for WHY TEAM 888's ROBOT WAS PINNED ON THE CARPET AGAINST THE RAMP FOR OVER OVER OVER OVER OVER I'll repeat that in case you missed. OVER

40 SECONDS

IN THE THIRD GAME OF THE SEMIFINAL MATCH AT THE PITTSBURG REGIONAL.

Thank You
Team 888

[Brindza]

Oh, I forgot to mention,

and not a SINGLE penalty awarded to the opposing alliance.

[Eugenia Gabrielov]

I'm sorry to hear you were pinned for that time. Could you please elaborate as to whether or not you spoke with a referee about this after the match, or whether you let it hang? Sometimes a question to clarify a penalty decision can make a big difference.

[Brindza]

Yes we did ask the referee.

Myself and my co-driver went to the head referee after the game.

She told us that since it was a field element and not a barrier the rule did not apply. We ended up tying the game somehow though and i did not have time then to look up the rule (since I could remeber the exact wording) beause we were being rushed to redeploy our robot.
I did not look up the rule until i got home (BAD IDEA)
from what i read she was completely wrong.

A member of our team did video tape the game so when i go into school on monday i will be able to post the video and you can see exactly what happened.

888

[Eugenia Gabrielov]

I'm sorry to hear about that penalty. Unfortunately, by not calling the rule there, there isn't much that can be done. Better luck next time.

[Ethulin]

Our drive team carries a rule book in their cart, just for a case like this.

[Brindza]

Originally Posted by Ethulin

Our drive team carries a rule book in their cart, just for a case like this.

That is a great idea, I will definently have one with me at all times at Annapolis. It was just in the heat of the competition and watching the refs discuss the final score for 5 minutes that I assumed(I know, I am never supposed to do that) that one of them had refered to the rulebook before making a final descion. I will know better next time.

[Donut]

What part of the ramp were you near? I don't think it should matter (considering the pinning penalty against our alliance was called for pinning a robot against the front of the ramp, where you can drive straight up), but some refs may deem that being pinned against the front is not considered "pinning" because you can drive up the ramp to escape.

[Stu Bloom]

Originally Posted by Donut

What part of the ramp were you near? I don't think it should matter (considering the pinning penalty against our alliance was called for pinning a robot against the front of the ramp, where you can drive straight up), but some refs may deem that being pinned against the front is not considered "pinning" because you can drive up the ramp to escape.

I can assure you that this WILL be discussed amongst the head referees before the next set of regional competitions. My interpretation is that pinning is called when your robot is pinned against a field element in such a way that it CANNOT move. If you could have moved away (by driving up the ramp) but chose not to do so, then that is NOT considered pinning. Also note that the penalty is not assessed until after the 10 second count if the offending robot has not backed away.

And don't forget, we refs are only human (AND volunteers). While I believe ALL FIRST referees do the best job they can to help teams avoid penalties while objectively making the best call we can, it is possible to make a mistake. Even highly paid professional referees officiating games where the rules remain constant from year to year make extremely costly mistakes from time to time.

[Wetzel]

Since we are all talking about G24, I'd thought I'd post it so that we are all on the same page. This is taken from Rev D of The Game

Originally Posted by =<G24>

Pinning - While on the carpeted field surface, a ROBOT cannot pin (inhibit the movement of another ROBOT while in contact with a field element or border) for more than 10 seconds. This rule does not apply if either ROBOT is entirely on an ALLIANCE PLATFORM. If a ROBOT has been pinned for 10 seconds, the team with the pinning ROBOT will be told by a referee to release the pinned ROBOT and back away approximately 3 feet. Once the pinning ROBOT has backed off by 3 feet, it may again attempt to pin its opponent, and if successful, the 10 second count will start over. If a referee determines that this rule has been violated, a 5-point penalty flag will be assessed for each violation.

Wetzel