Adult vs. Student coaches

[David55]

Do you have an adult coach or a student coach? Student

Why? We feel that the project is for the students and the students should do everything, and the teacher/mentor is there just to help out and give advice... (and weld)

Do you feel it increases your ranking, winning, and success in matches? I don't think it really matters if the coach is a student or an adult. The coach, anyway, should have good understanding and knowledge of the game and the rules.

Do you feel it enhances your team as a whole? Yes

What downsides are there? Maybe the lack of experience, but I don't think that really effects his functioning if the coach has a good understanding of the game.

Do you feel intimidated or persuaded by adult coaches on your alliance? No

[Conor Ryan]

I'm on a team were we have an all student drive team, in my own perfect world however I'd give the coaching job to an adult. Why? Simply because students don't do everything, they do most of the work, but the adults do some of it too.

Do you have an adult coach or a student coach? Student

Why? Not my decision....

Would I rather have an adult coach or a student coach? Adult

Why? I believe that a lot of FIRST's goal is to see Students working with Adults and learning, I believe that this shouldn't be restricted to just the design and build process, the competition itself should be a joint effort.

Do you feel it increases your ranking, winning, and success in matches? I don't think it'll change too much, but just in choosing an adult it may calm some of the high pressure situations at the end of a match. Whether or not it'll change the score, I don't know. What I do know is that whoever is behind the driver and operator is that they are trying their hardest.

Do you feel it enhances your team as a whole? Of course, it just is another example of students and adults working together.

What downsides are there? Not an all student drive team? I don't see that as a downside but some people may.

Do you feel intimidated or persuaded by adult coaches on your alliance? If I was a young student, possibly. But with an adult coach I'd think that'd be something they'd need to address with every alliance.


Just my thoughts, I don't want to replace anyone, but I think an Adult coach would be good for my ideal team. (even though Ideal never happens)

[Greg Needel]

I have been on teams where both should happen for alot of the different reasons stated above in this thread. For me it comes down to this. I love to coach, i feel that strategy is still far overlooked in FIRST events and alot of the time all you need is a bot that can drive and a good strategy to win the match. That being said nothing makes me happier then to see an all student drive team. If there is an individual on the team that shows the ability to think out situations and react well on the fly, while keeping a cool head i always go for a student coach.

Typically the way i like it is a student coach where there is a mentor present during the strategy session to back up the students. Although I would still not turn down the opportunity to coach if it were offered to me.

[AcesPease]

Do you have an adult coach or a student coach?
Adult
Why?
He was our winning driver in 1999 and is the best strategist on the team
Do you feel it increases your ranking, winning, and success in matches?
Helps most in elimination matches
Do you feel it enhances your team as a whole?
Yes
Do you feel it enhances the accuracy, precision, and speed in driving and operation?
He Keeps our drivers more focused. A very mature student could do the same, but we haven't found one.
What downsides are there?
One less student on the field.


Bill Pease Teacher Mentor not coach
Aces High Team 176
2006 UTC New England Champions with 177 and 1124
2006 BAE Granite State Finalists with 319 and 562
1999 National Champions (best robot and drive team ever IMHO)

[chinckley]

Team 1254 had an adult coach. This is because only one student was a returning student from the year before. ALL other students were new. Our school is Juniors and Seniors only. He has been the coach for three years now and the students really like having him there. He is a relatively new teacher at our school and relates extremely well to the students, especially under the pressure of competition.

[Corey Balint]

Originally Posted by Greg Needel

Typically the way i like it is a student coach where there is a mentor present during the strategy session to back up the students. Although I would still not turn down the opportunity to coach if it were offered to me.

If we were to have a student coach, i would say the same. When drive teams normally have their alliance meeting, the team with the Adult Coach is always the one being listened too. I have rarely seen a student coach able to delegate duties over an adult.

Do you have an adult coach or a student coach? Adult
Why? He is darn good at it.
Do you feel it increases your ranking, winning, and success in matches? Increases Greatly.
Do you feel it enhances your team as a whole? Drive team at least.
Do you feel it enhances the accuracy, precision, and speed in driving and operation? Allows myself to have an extra set of eyes to be able to know how the humna player is doing, as well as the score.
What downsides are there? None.

[dachickindapit]

Team 67, as far as I know, has always had an adult coach. I agree with the posts in this thread that point out that the age doesn't matter, the qualities of the coach and their ability to function in that position do.

I think that a lot of the aspects of coaching (especially in selecting a coach) have to do with the interaction between the (potential) coach and the students, especially those on the drive team. I know our current coach works very well with the students. He may be intimidating the first time you meet him, but he's an awesome guy who really has the respect of the students. In turn, he respects the students, which, in my opinion, helps him in his coaching. If a student is treated like an adult, they will be more likely to act and perform as one, in any function on the team. He is intense on the field, but he is knowledgable and fair, and has quite a bit of experience now in the coaching position. Another thing that helps is that he's been with the team for several years now. He knows how FIRST functions and if there's a question that arises in the middle of the match, he can use his resources from experience to advise how to address the situation. Along the same idea, I know of a team that showed this concept -- they used one mentor coach for the season and a different one for offseason. The differences in how they viewed each of these mentors made a huge difference on how they played.

To those who are rotating coaches: how does this affect your consistency? I know in the past, we tried alternating between two coaches, and it ended up being highly confusing.

*Disclaimer: I was not on drive team in high school. I was head of the pit crew, so I did have significant interaction with them, however. I also know that I don't think I could perform the job of coach anywhere near the level of several of our other mentors, if I could do it at all.

[JamesBrown]

Team 1568 had a student coach last year and a College mentor for a coach this year. The coach just like all of the other posistions is open to any one, preference goes to the people who know the rules and can develop strategies as well as those with the best attendance. THis year the best person happened not to be in highschool. The most important thing for a coach to be able to do is to get along with the drive team and communicate with them.

Last year I hated when other teams had adult coaches, I felt that they did not apprerciate other alliance partner's strategies and insisted on their own. This year however I had no problems with other teams coaches, they were always willing to listen and would either incorporate your Idea or explain why they think another would work better. I think that BAE had good examples of quality student and adult coaches. Icurtis developed winning strategies for 1276 and Andy Grady was great with incorporating every ones strengths and preferences into an alliance strategy.

[bigboi146]

team 1660 has always had adult coaches. this year were gonna go to student choaching to c how it is

[Dylan Gramlich]

this year is my second year on the team and it is my first year being coach
it has been quite an experience being coach
our driver this year had been the coach since he was a freshmen in our firs year and has done very well in those 3 years, he has also done a great job teaching me what i need to do as coach in my upcoming years
so i guess what i am trying to say is as long as u have someone that knows the game and can take command on the field u can have a good coach no matter if they are a mentor or a student
this year being my first year i was already given the chance to lead an alliance in the tournament at FLR and was able to lead that alliance to a regional championship(which surprised me
so in all this i am trying to say that i think that FIRST should make a rule saying that student coaches should be mandatory or that mentor coaches should be mandatory
this year there was a new rule stating that only drivers, operators, and human players could talk to the refs and judges which disappointed me because of the time i spent studying the rules and preparing for the competitions

[Kims Robot]

I have to agree with Greg, and say that this is pretty much the way we do it. We have a student coach this year, with an adult mentor who can sub in if needed(ie if our coach is off presenting our CA), or just sit in on strategy sessions. We started this last year, when originally we were going to have an adult (just for lack of any students really interested/capable), but then we found a student who was really good at it, and the two of them tag-teamed the rest of our events. It was a really nice dynamic, as they were able to learn from eachother. Im pretty certain we will continue to run the adult/student thing for a while.

But in the end, I believe its whatever works best for the team. If there is a student excited and capable, let them do it, if there isnt, have an adult do it, if you have a college student thats really really good and works well with your drivers, have them do it. One of our number one things we were looking for this year in our drive team was chemistry. If they could communicate well without yelling at eachother or not understanding things, that was what we wanted (and what we got! )

[irishninja]

This years coach is a new mentor, and a senior and co captain of our team from last year. I have never felt any intimidation by adult captains, and Ian is dead useful. I'm only the human player, so I don't know how the drivers feel, but he is absolutly great. Go Ian.

[BillP]

Team 624 CRyptonite has always used students for coaches. Some have done very well, others not so well, but we have never considered changing (even though some of the students have asked us to).

There have been a lot of interesting reasons, one way or the other, posted in this thread and, in my opinion, they all have merit. The decision about student or adult coach appears to hinge on two factors: Best candidate and best advantage. For my part, I have always felt that the competitions are for the students; a chance to show off what they have accomplished and enjoy the adrenaline rush of the competition (I'm not sure my heart could take the stress behind the glass!).

A comment was made in an earlier post about letting the mentors have some fun too, and that FIRST is about students working with adults. First, thanks for thinking about us and second, your right about students working with adults. Our thoughts are the same, but we prefer to work with the students "behind the scene" as it were. I get my kicks out of watching the students take the lime light. Sometimes they shine brighter than at other times, but they always shine. The experience of the leadership required to be the coach is a huge step along the path to leadership among adults, and in society, and I would not want to deny that opportunity to the students. I get my chance every day when I go to work and, frankly, I need the break!

So, should students or adults be coaches? It doesn't matter to me. I prefer to let the students take the responsibility but have no problem with teams that feel differently. Each team has its own dynamics and needs to do what's best for them.

Oh, the questions:

Do you have an adult coach or a student coach? Student
Why? The chance for the learning experience
Do you feel it increases your ranking, winning, and success in matches? No
Do you feel it enhances your team as a whole? Yes
Do you feel it enhances the accuracy, precision, and speed in driving and operation? Possibly
What downsides are there? None

And if you have a student coach, please answer the additional question:
Do you feel intimidated or persuaded by adult coaches on your alliance? We have had students complain about overbearing coaches from other teams at competitions, but we just try to teach them how to handle these situations. After all, in real life, you will run into overbearing people, and you need to know how to deal with it.

[JulieB]

Do you have an adult coach or a student coach?

Team 538 has always had a student.

Why?

Because this program is build around young people learning real world experiences. And having to deal with other alliances is truly a real world experiences.

Do you feel it increases your ranking, winning, and success in matches?

I don’t think is matters. It just depends on strategy, drivers and the robots ability

Do you feel it enhances your team as a whole?

I think having a student coach seem to begin the team closer together. Because, the coach take suggestions from the whole team on what we should do during a match. But we have one rule if a drive makes a mistake during the match the team members are NOT to take opinion to that drive they are to go to the coach first. Because, the coach is one who make the decision on the field not the drivers.

Do you feel it enhances the accuracy, precision, and speed in driving and operation?

I think this depends on the ability of the robot and how well the team works together.

What downsides are there?

I agree with Rombus

I would much rather see a student get the experience of being on the field and hearing your team cheering!

Do you feel intimidated or persuaded by adult coaches on your alliance?

At time I feel intimidated because, the adults coaches sometime have attitudes, that I don’t know what I am doing because I am a student.

Julie
Team Captain/ Coach

[abeD]

This year my team 710 decided on the coaching role at the last minute. I ended up being the coach for serveral reasons.

1. This is my 6th year doing first as well as driving the robot in 2 of them.
2. My brother was the base driver for the bot and we communicate well, we also had another student driving as well and we had the same results.
3. We tried it in practice matches and we worked well together, the students responded well to my instructions and strategy decisions.

I think the number one most important thing for a coach is experience. Sometimes reactions on the field have to be instinctive and these instincts are developed over time. This is a large reason why mentors are usually adults who have been doing FIRST for a while.