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#16
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Re: Scoring For Your Opponents
There has to be a tie-breaker for teams with equal w/l/t records. FIRST has elected to set that up to be the losing team's score. This certainly can cause scoring for the opponents - as the triplets did this year. I recall seeing 67 pick up an opponent's tetra last year to score a row for them, for the same reason.
While it can be seen as insulting, it isn't meant to be so. The alternative is to have rankings based on your own scores - which would encourage running up the score. In my mind, that is more insulting. FIRST has created a solution to one problem that creates a lesser problem. It's a trade-off - you can't have everything perfect. The fact that scoring for your opponent also increases their ranking makes this option better than the "running up the score" option, IMO. Even more insulting would be to get ahead, then step back from your controls and stop playing. That's the "I can beat you with one hand tied behind my back" taunt. |
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#17
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Re: Scoring For Your Opponents
Quote:
In engineering you cannot guarantee results, all you can do is guarantee your best effort will be applied to the project. I have been on projects that did not turn out well, I have been on projects that were cancelled. We still had end-of-project parties, and we still had the same level of pride in our work because we did the best we could under the circumstances. Besides, sometimes no matter how good you are someone else will one-up you and do better. Sometimes pride is great. Sometimes humility is called for. No one can humiliate you if you are already humble in the presence of greatness. |
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#18
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Re: Scoring For Your Opponents
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First is Qualifing Points (QP's) Win - 2pt Loss/DQ - 0pt Tie - 1pt In the event of a tie in QP's they use ranking points (RP's) which are awarded as follows: Win - The lesser of Unpenalized Alliance Scores from either Alliance Loss - Penalized score of losing alliance Tie - Penalized score of own alliance. DQ - zero I just finished a backup scoring sheet in excel, what a pain. |
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#19
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Re: Scoring For Your Opponents
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If this strategy backfires on any alliance that attempts it, they will have no one to blame but themselves. Be smart - know the risks before proceeding. |
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#20
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Re: Scoring For Your Opponents
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FIRST is not just engineering. FIRST is a sport, in which opposing teams play against each other. In hockey, in baseball, in soccer, opposing teams would never score for you, not only because they are competitive, but because they have respect for your effort. I'm not saying that this is what would be going through the opposing team's minds when they score for you, but it's what some people will get out of it. There is a fine line between humility and humiliation, and for some, who certainly have humility, this may cross that line. |
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#21
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Re: Scoring For Your Opponents
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If the other team did not get your points at the end of the match they dump points into your goal, then that would be weird (when they could dump them in their own goal instead). How about the flip side of this, when a team knows they are going to lose, so they stop playing, knowing their low score will hurt the team that is beating them? BTW, I was wondering - if you hold the reset button on the OI down, do the lights on the robot go off? Would it be possible for a robot to 'play dead' by doing this, and then come back to life, to win a close match? Last edited by KenWittlief : 13-03-2006 at 11:12. |
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#22
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Re: Scoring For Your Opponents
Quote:
Quote:
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#23
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Re: Scoring For Your Opponents
If the opposing alliance is scoring for you, just double your efforts and try to score even more. I'm sure that there are games in which one team, thinking they were ahead more than they were, scored for the other team and ended up giving them the game.
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#24
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Re: Scoring For Your Opponents
Try to keep track of what they actually have, because if you don't.. Hey guess what, you could score posints for them and make them win!!!
HA HA HA!! That would be great. To each strategy their are plusses and minuses, and this is a risk you will have to take on. |
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#25
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Re: Scoring For Your Opponents
i seen when you guys did that, i was surprised that you actually had that planned, i was thinking " no way, thats the first time i seen that this year "
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#26
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Re: Scoring For Your Opponents
Personally i think it's unfair.
the whole idea behind the ranking system factoring in how much or how little you won by is so that if you get matched with a awesome alliance, and the other alliance isn't as great, you don't get a giant boost in your rank for winning an easy match. I think boosting your rank like this is very unfair. Is it legitimate? sure. But fair? no. That's not fair to the team's who truly WORKED to just pull out of a match and win by a single point. My two cents, like it or not, it's my opinion. -Chrisms |
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#27
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Re: Scoring For Your Opponents
I think that scoring for your opponent is a good strategy to get higher in the leaderboard, but the whole purpose of having the loosing team score is this:
If an great alliance, lets say (1114,1503, 67), against 3 bots that dont score score is: 80:7 you dont get awarded a good RP because it was oviously not a challenge. ok .. this time you score some for the other team. the score is 80:55 do you deserve the better ranking for winning against really bad teams? NO! .. the purpose of using the loosing teams score, is to rank alliances higher if they beat a EVENLY matched team in a match, so your spoofing RP to make it seem like every match you played was a HARD game. If you can barely beat an great alliance, you deserve RP more then being the amazing alliance and beating a lower calliber team and spoofing RP. PS: i dont have anything against 1114, 1503, or 67, i just used them as an example since they won GLR, and they are a great alliance! congrats to them at that! thats my two $0.02 -kevin |
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#28
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Re: Scoring For Your Opponents
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I think that any team that feels the need to cheat the system to get a better ranking has let winning become to important to them. |
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#29
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Re: Scoring For Your Opponents
My psychic powers must be a little off today
I thought the idea behind giving the winning team the losing teams score was so that super alliances dont completely shut out a weak alliance. If you got your own score, then you could - you could have 200 to 0 matches. I would think that evenly matched alliances would see matches end up in low scores for both sides because the great offense was matched by great defense - thats what I saw in the finals, teams were winning with low scores by one or two points. Now that I think about it somemore, I think the idea behind giving the winning team the losing teams score is this: The winning team gets the losing teams score! <= That is the game - play to win: the match, the best seed, the finals. |
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#30
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Re: Scoring For Your Opponents
I remember in 2003 when QP was such a roblem teams started brokering deals to keep their stacks intact so both alliances would score hefty QP points win or lose. THe debate split FIRST right down the middle.
Some saw it as a great strategy and others saw it as corrupting the ideals of competition. It gets real funny when you start thinking about QP points as much (if not more) tha the win, which is probably why FIRST started going with the W/L record over just QP points so it wouldn't be as much an issue. I'm not all that fond of the QP points but they are a part of the FIRST landscape so we live with them. If you choose to focus on them just understand the risk and be rprepared to take the consequences if they backfire. |
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