What if FIRST changed back to 2 coaches?

If nothing else comes from this thread its that

-FIRST needs to have a student coach out there....

-If FIRST only has one coach and its a student it could put too much pressure on them...an adult backup would be a wise solution

- If FIRST would have 2 coaches, you could make it an adult and a student, it would prevent confusion on the field if you plan it out right.


I know people have said this in earlier threads, but with 2 coaches, one watches our allience and makes sure everything goes smoothly, and the 2nd watches the opponents to make sure they dont do pull any suprises, and keep time along with the human player

[Joe Ross]

Originally posted by Andy A.
So, if FIRST were to some how bring the human players out of the player station, I would be open to the two coaches again. It's just to crowded as it is, I'd like to see the human players seperated regardless of how many coaches we have.

You mean how it was before 2000?

[Mark Hamilton]

My first time driving was this year, so I don't know what it was like with 2 coaches, but I say we keep it at 1. It can get very confusing and hectic up there, and I think 2 people giving directions will only make it worse in most circumstances. Some people have suggested one coach directly tell the drivers what to do, and another focus on strategy. As far as I'm concerned, let the driver's drive. They have a much better grasp of the actual situation with the robot then the coach does. A driver knows when he's losing a pushing match, or a robot is malfunctioning, and where to go and when to turn, etc. without a coach. A coach is most valuable when he looks at the big picture all the time, and lets the driver handle the robot. The driver is always focused on his (or her) robot. The coach doesnt have that limitation, and can help the driver prioritize, decide on strategy decisions, and warn the driver of approaching threats(i.e. the other team's robot). One person does this quite well. What might be more valuable is allowing a tech to be on feild, but not in the box. He can assist on loding/unloading the robot, making emergency repairs, replacing batteries, etc. During the match he should get to be nearby on the sidelines, with the best possible viewpoint safety will allow. From their he can see things the driver and spectator's can't, and use that knowledge to spot problems with the robot, strategy, or driving to help the team improve for the next match. This person can be a student or adult, and can allow some people that never would get up on stage a chance. Its worth noting that I'm a large supporter of a dedicated driving team, and those teams which allow all their students the chance to drive( and therefore have to deal with lots of inexperienced drivers) would probably find the 2nd coach more useful.

[RicNic_team930]

driver 2 (me) wasn't needed our robot could be controlled by 1 person our human player was need though he was 6' tall easy for him to put balls over the wall. Lauren our adult was good at watching things and telling us what we needed to do different. but i agree that there wasnt any room
additional student coach for the experience
but give us some space

[Jim Giacchi]

Originally posted by Andy A.
Some one mentioned moving the human players out of the station and into their own 'human player station', either in the field or on the side lines, whatever.

Didn't they have the human player in the a different spot during the year where they had the center tower that was the multiplier and there were the three scoring racks coming out of the center tower. I think it was 98.

[mtaman02]

2 coahces 1 coach or none. The drive squad most be able to operate in sync with one another. FIRST gives a max of 2 min. to utilize the stratedgys' your alliance has come up with. Theres no time for messing up. I think the coaches whether 1 or more should be placed in another area on the field. After 2 years of being in a booth with one or more coaches i have noticed that the coaches make you much more nervous then the person next to you piloting the robot. Reason is all you here is yelling and screaming and you can't here your alliance calling to you. Personally. It should be if anything. 1 Human Player. 2 Drivers. and a coach. Its a small booth as it is and it would be a little bit more comfortable to have one coach.

[Suneet]

To keep our drivers focused on the driving, and to avoid making them nervous, in the box coaches have the only word on what the robot is going to do. The coach decides, and tells the driver(s) what to do. If it doesn't work, the coach worries about what to do next. This way, there’s less tension; relative calm in the box. We decided to never use adult coaches in our second year, as it seems students kept their cool better under pressure (confident, experienced students), and executed more logical strategies as a result.

The student coach role rotates between 3 or so people, and all three participate in discussions with the other team. Having two coaches in the box would just be clutter for us... but maybe the other could... track score or something…

As one of the coaches, I've seen that drivers really appreciate having something taken off their already heavy backs during matches.

[379Robocat]

I wouldn't mind seeing a second coach on the field. There are some years in which a second coach would be necssary ie: one coach for the drivers and the other for keeping score ( when you got twice your opponents score and so on). I agree that the coach should be a student. After six years of FIRST and a driver for four years I've seen many coaches that are really hard on the kids. This is a competitive sport but winning is not everything. Winning is not the main point FIRST is trying to teach. Many coaches are about winning and drilling these kids into the ground to the point that I have seen them cry. FIRST is to teach kids the principals of gracious professionalism, science and technology and communication. Many team coaches can't seem to get that into their head and go all out hardcore winning. The students are able to communicate with each other better and they understand each other better. They can talk "kid talk" and be able to be understood. So again I would like to see a second coach as long as it is a student.

[Rick TYler]

From the Land of the Undead Threads...

[Adam Richards]

Originally Posted by Rick TYler

From the Land of the Undead Threads...

Right, but this is a topic that could be further debated now, as more time and games have elapsed to make the idea a valid option again.

[Dan Petrovic]

More people brings up less agreement.

Simple as that.

If there were two coaches last year one would say "cap the center goal" and then the other said "No, cap the far corner goal". Who does the driver listen to?

[Commanchetruck]

I would like to see every team have 2 student coaches. Im tired of having adult coaches from other teams coming over during the match and informing me what to do, and then getting mad after when i dont do it. If teams were allowed to have 2 coaches i think a lot of teams would have 1 student and 1 adult.

[cire]

We never really used a coach until our last 4 matchs this season, last year we didnt use our coach at all except for bringing the cart to the end of the field. I guess it made it alot harder on the drivers (me), cause it was nice when we got a new coach for our last 4 matchs.

[irishninja]

There would be too much arguing between the two coaches, especially if they differ in style. It would be awful to be in the middle of a match as a driver and have one person yelling at you, GO RIGHT GO RIGHT GO RIGHT STOP THAT ROBOT, and the other person on the other side yelling GO LEFT GO LEFT GO LEFT PLAY SOME OFFENSE. It would be like having an angel and a devil on each shoulder except you wouldn't know which was which.

[mtaman02]

Originally Posted by 379Robocat

I wouldn't mind seeing a second coach on the field. There are some years in which a second coach would be necssary ie: one coach for the drivers and the other for keeping score

Wow I didn't even realize this thread was still around, At least one of the many old but good threads are still open to discussion =)

A game like this years and like the last 3 games I still see no reason why 2 coaches are needed. Having 2 coaches in the drivers station really doesn't get much accomplished in a 2M:10S Round, The rounds are very short this year and leave no room to mess up with. By the time a stratedgy is agreed upon - 1/2 to 3/4 of the match would be over and the only thing made clear was pure confusion.

Personally Its hard to operate a robot with just one coach on the field (Student or Adult) To have 2 Coaches on the field would require a bottle of Aleve or Advil and some Halls cough drops. While I think having 2 coaches may be helpful that would be 6 more voices you would hear screaming over one another.

What if FIRST put this into play would that be better and a lil bit more fairer:

A drive team consisting of 2 Student Drivers 1 Student Human Player and 2 Adult or Student Coaches

A Team may have 2 Coaches on the field only if they have no intentions of using the Human Player for that Match [ Basically in order to have 2 coaches on the field you cannot have a human player on the field at all. The Second Coach WILL NOT be allowed to handle any balls whatso ever ]

Specific suggestions as to the 2nd Coaches Duties while on the field
1) Remind the alliance of which will be the backbot
2) Remind the alliance of which round of play they're in (Offense, Defense, Free for all)

While this seems unfair and I'm sure it does Just remember one thing - Only 2 Human Players can be aiming at the end goals at a time so rather having a 3rd human player on the field not doing anything you could trade him in for a round for a second coach to benefit the alliance in letting you guys know whats going on, this also may help with making it a penalty free match.

***ADDED - I Still see no reason to have 2 coaches, I mean if FIRST wants to they can let teams have the option to have 2 coaches but will probably take that feature away if they start to notice that only one coach is being used during the match***

Wow this became real long real quick eh nobodys perfect, any objections to this setup.